22 arc vs 223 for 75eld and 88eld
- Thread starter Mike112288
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Honestly I don't know much about 22 ARC but what's better about it than 22BR or 22 Creedmoor?
I went through a similar ish dilemma when building a practice rifle and strongly considered 22BR (cos my 6BR is amazing) but in the end my components (75gr & 77gr bullets) and the fact I was only going to be shooting 500 max meant the 223 Wylde was the best fit for me. Barrel life on the 223 was another reason (being a high volume practice rifle).
That was probably 4 years ago and I don't regret that decision one bit. The gun is awesome for its intended purpose.
Once you decide which boxes the gun needs to tick you can make a more informed choice.
I went through a similar ish dilemma when building a practice rifle and strongly considered 22BR (cos my 6BR is amazing) but in the end my components (75gr & 77gr bullets) and the fact I was only going to be shooting 500 max meant the 223 Wylde was the best fit for me. Barrel life on the 223 was another reason (being a high volume practice rifle).
That was probably 4 years ago and I don't regret that decision one bit. The gun is awesome for its intended purpose.
Once you decide which boxes the gun needs to tick you can make a more informed choice.
I primarily shoot .223's and 308's because in my preferred discipline , you can shoot either a .223 or a 308.
the .223 with a Wylde chamber has many plusses attached to it, and although I have several 308 match rifles, I rarely shoot them anymore, this year I may use one for the long range matches a bit more however......
Cat
the .223 with a Wylde chamber has many plusses attached to it, and although I have several 308 match rifles, I rarely shoot them anymore, this year I may use one for the long range matches a bit more however......
Cat
1-8” twist 24” length. I wanna milk it so I’m wondering if the arc will be better. I don’t wanna load 223 too hot to try and achieve the 3000 or so fps with 75 grainers.
I have both. I like them both.
22 ARC is just a higher performance option without the full 22 Creedmoor/ 22-250 barrel burning case capacity. It also still uses small rifle primers.
I look at it like a goldilocks size between 223 and 22-250/22CM. I prefer it for shooting anything heavier then about 70gr's.
so to answer your question if its worth switching? probably not unless you can identify a specific performance issue with 223 that is holding you back. In my specific case my options for coyotes in 22 cal were 223(limited to 2.620 OAL) ,and 22-250(limited by 14 twist). I had a coyote stop on me at 484 yards on a windy day. neither options were as well equipped for that as a 22 ARC with a high bc bullet. In particular with bolt gun pressure and longer OAL. And also i wanted a new gun. So I built a 22 ARC.
If I had a fast twist 223 that could run longer then 2.260 COAL. i would have a hard time justifying the step up to a 22 ARC.
22 ARC is just a higher performance option without the full 22 Creedmoor/ 22-250 barrel burning case capacity. It also still uses small rifle primers.
I look at it like a goldilocks size between 223 and 22-250/22CM. I prefer it for shooting anything heavier then about 70gr's.
so to answer your question if its worth switching? probably not unless you can identify a specific performance issue with 223 that is holding you back. In my specific case my options for coyotes in 22 cal were 223(limited to 2.620 OAL) ,and 22-250(limited by 14 twist). I had a coyote stop on me at 484 yards on a windy day. neither options were as well equipped for that as a 22 ARC with a high bc bullet. In particular with bolt gun pressure and longer OAL. And also i wanted a new gun. So I built a 22 ARC.
If I had a fast twist 223 that could run longer then 2.260 COAL. i would have a hard time justifying the step up to a 22 ARC.
I have a 1:9 ( soon to be 1:6.5) and a 1:8.
My main Fclass rifle these days is a 1:6.5 twist that I run right out to 1,000 meters with 95 Match Kings.
I recently just took the irons and sling off it, and am shooting it as an F/TR rifle with a March 10-60X and a Remple bipod.
It's shooting clean scores with it on an ICFRA target.
Cat
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Are you happy with how the 75s shoot or do you want to go heavier?
What's the max range you'll be using this rig at?
22 creed has a barrel life of 500-800 rounds. I know. I have 2 of them.
223 with a long throated rem match chamber to shoot 75eldm - 85.5 Berger a 2.55in is a much better option for high volume shooting especially with a 24-26inbarrel.
22 ARC gets you an extra 150-200 fps with a decent barrel life and you don’t have to modify the magazines and with factory ammo and 88 TMK and 88 eldm it will be a better option than 223 Wylde past 600 yards.
223 with a long throated rem match chamber to shoot 75eldm - 85.5 Berger a 2.55in is a much better option for high volume shooting especially with a 24-26inbarrel.
22 ARC gets you an extra 150-200 fps with a decent barrel life and you don’t have to modify the magazines and with factory ammo and 88 TMK and 88 eldm it will be a better option than 223 Wylde past 600 yards.
Forgot to mention I also would like to use 88eldm. With my ai magazines they will probably be too long for the magazine with 88’s right? Max range maybe 1000 yards or so. Was almost thinking 22 creed cuz I have an action for that I could use but barrel life sounds low. One guy claimed 2400 rounds through his 22 creed whine chasing the lands further and further out as it wore out and it was still shooting accurate at that point. Everyone else says their barrel life is a lot lower than that tho with 22 creed. Kinda looks like 22 arc would be the one to try for the longer bullets
It seems that with 22 Creed there are 2 speed nodes (as with many rifles). I know folks that run them on the lower node, this in theory should translate to more barrel life but if it takes it from 800 ish (or less as per post #9) to 2400 I would be very surprised.
It does sound like you need something in the middle of the 223 spectrum based on your criteria, so maybe 22 ARC or 22BR are the best fit.
The 88s in the Arc or BR are a perfect match and are a ton of fun shooting out to a grand. I think the Arc/BR is in that perfect range of being a little better then the 223, but not to hot like the Creed.
If you have some money burning a hole in your pocket. Go for it.
If you have some money burning a hole in your pocket. Go for it.
having shot a few 22cal chamberings, I have settled on the 223 and 22 CM. With the 223, it is an 8 twist and can easily toss 75gr ELDMs to 1200yds accurately. I have shot a ton of Hrn 80gr Amax back in the day with a 223 and chased 338LMs out to 1400yds, and even got some out to a mile. Right now, 50gr TNTs and 55gr hrn sps are loaded up for some PD hunting. Very versatile chambering.
For getting the most performance from the 22cal, I paired the 22 CM with the Sierra 95gr MK in a 7 twist around 2800/2900fps. This is near starting load territory (yes, you can do this with smaller cases at higher pressures) as I see no value in another 100fps, at a huge cost in bore life. I have gone to PRS competitions and done well with barrels in the low teens and seen excellent steel smashing performance in the high teens, low 2000's. I intentionally keep pressures low and barrels from overheating. Ballistics with this combo rivals larger magnums all the way to 1500+yds. I have tested the 22CM with 77gr to 90gr and they all have done well but it is really hard to beat the 95s when you want to reach out there in the winds.
If you throttle up the 22CM to reach the fastest speeds, bore life will be brief. I don't bother and barrels, which I have shot a number, seem to give me decent bore life vs the performance.
The biggest reason I stick with these 2 is brass.... availability and cost. and they also feed from the mags I have onhand. Yes, I have the bolt head for the PPC case but with components being so expensive and hard to find, ventures in the ARC and PPC don't interest me at this time. I have no interest in the BR cases after spending a few years using it (6BR was my first 'accurate' chambering) as mag feeding can be spotty and cases are pricey.
My other chambering is a 308win so you can see I lean heavily on ease of access, stability in supply and longevity of use. Did alot of boutique and wildcat chamberings over the decades. Fun and interesting if you haven't played but I have been there done that. A bit more this or that doesn't really mean much in real world shooting
YMMV
Jerry
For getting the most performance from the 22cal, I paired the 22 CM with the Sierra 95gr MK in a 7 twist around 2800/2900fps. This is near starting load territory (yes, you can do this with smaller cases at higher pressures) as I see no value in another 100fps, at a huge cost in bore life. I have gone to PRS competitions and done well with barrels in the low teens and seen excellent steel smashing performance in the high teens, low 2000's. I intentionally keep pressures low and barrels from overheating. Ballistics with this combo rivals larger magnums all the way to 1500+yds. I have tested the 22CM with 77gr to 90gr and they all have done well but it is really hard to beat the 95s when you want to reach out there in the winds.
If you throttle up the 22CM to reach the fastest speeds, bore life will be brief. I don't bother and barrels, which I have shot a number, seem to give me decent bore life vs the performance.
The biggest reason I stick with these 2 is brass.... availability and cost. and they also feed from the mags I have onhand. Yes, I have the bolt head for the PPC case but with components being so expensive and hard to find, ventures in the ARC and PPC don't interest me at this time. I have no interest in the BR cases after spending a few years using it (6BR was my first 'accurate' chambering) as mag feeding can be spotty and cases are pricey.
My other chambering is a 308win so you can see I lean heavily on ease of access, stability in supply and longevity of use. Did alot of boutique and wildcat chamberings over the decades. Fun and interesting if you haven't played but I have been there done that. A bit more this or that doesn't really mean much in real world shooting
YMMV
Jerry
If you tried the hrn 75gr BTHP and it didn't stabilize, odds are the actual twist is slower then 9. We saw that in a number of Rems and Savages over the years. Factory stated twists may not be what you actually end up with.... think +/- 1/2 twist as a baselineI have a CZ 527 in 223 with 1/9 twist and it won't shoot anything over a 69gr bullet worth a hoot, sure does shoot 52gr hpbt into a nice little bug hole though
Jerry
Any idea what kind of barrel life you’ve been getting with 22 creedmoor with mild loads? I agree with choosing something that has easy available brass and also factory ammo available just in case
Only problem with the 22 ARC is it came out in 2025 and I wasn't able to enjoy it for the last 20 years of shoosting
Fantastic little round that does a lot, with a little. I like the 22 Creedmoor, but it's a bit too much of a good thing. I have put more rounds down my ARC in one year than I have put down the Creed in 6 years
Fantastic little round that does a lot, with a little. I like the 22 Creedmoor, but it's a bit too much of a good thing. I have put more rounds down my ARC in one year than I have put down the Creed in 6 years
