.22 how dangerous is it?

Pig shot with a pellet gun... They use special ammo, .177 @ 1600 fps I think.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nVX0y2Pcj_s

Anyways, .22 bullets are slower (handguns esp.) but weigh lots more.

The guy in that story prolly was shooting ppl in the head. I doubt they were very hard shots. Twisted ####, that.

-Tyler
 
Tyler582,

Your statement is not 100% correct. Barrels as short as 6" provide 91% the velocity of an 18.5" barrel. A 10" barrel produces 97% the velocity of a 18.5" barrel.

Average muzzle energy of a 40gr .22 rimfire at the muzzle is approx 140 ft/lbs. Average energy at 100 yards is approx 85 ft/lbs. A modern crossbow generates approximately the same energy at release that a .22 has at 100 yards.

TDC
 
my friend who was a surgeon used to regularly hunt feral goats on the gulf island with a 22 magnum,one shot to the neck or behind the eye and they dropped like a ton of bricks.He used the 22 magnum as ''insurance''a 22 LR would be just as lethal.Mind you-he NEVER took any other shot-it was a neck or head shot, with a rest and not over 50 yards
 
I'd say the muzzle energy is more like 100 ft/lbs from a .22LR pistol. 140 ft/lbs is the sort of energy you'd expect to get from a rifle.

Compare: .25ACP: 80 ft/lbs , .32ACP 130 ft/lbs

Many, many police forces, especially in Europe used pistols in the .32ACP class of power throughout much of the 20th century.

Too many people are hung-up on the stopping power mentality. You might not drop in your tracks if taken-down with a .22 but there's a good chance you still might die! Treating any firearm with less respect than it deserves could be deadly mistake.
 
wasn't there a fatality several years ago when an actor shot himself in the head with a blank thinking it was harmless-and the wad killed him?
 
Did you ever think that at least some of those people might have been killed while they were cowering under tables or in corners? With 400 people in the school, at least some of them would have panicked and responded by hiding, paralyzed with fear.

And if the picture of the firearm in the news is accurate, it's a Sig Mosquito .22LR, as I previously stated.


Don't know about other cities but in Ottawa - we've had a rash of prank gun calls lately- the standard policy is for teachers etc to MAKE all students hide under desks, paralyzed with fear. While this may be convenient for the authorities (why else they would do it?) it strikes me that having all your potential victims immobilized in one place is even more convenient for a would-be mass murderer. Can someone on tihs board explain the logic of this policy?:confused:
 
that was Bruce Lee's kid, wasn't it?
Jon-Erik Hexum

Hexum died after shooting himself in the head with a prop gun loaded with blanks on the set of the CBS series Cover Up, a program about a pair of fashion photographers/models who were actually secret agents. Hexum, who played a weapons expert, was said to constantly be playing with the guns as if they were toys and once angered Jennifer O'Neill so much that she chastised him on-set for his carelessness.[6]

On October 12, 1984, after finishing a scene in which he fired several blank rounds from a .44 Magnum revolver, Hexum's character was supposed to unload the gun and reload it with inert dummy rounds, which was required for the next scene in the script—a procedure that Jon-Erik was not familiar with, and which was usually done by the prop masters. The shooting of the next scene was delayed several times. While waiting for the prop masters to unload the blanks from the gun, Hexum jokingly put the gun up to his temple and allegedly said,

"Let's see if I get myself with this one."

Hexum apparently did not realize that blanks use paper or plastic wadding to seal gun powder into the shell, and that this wadding is propelled out of the barrel of the gun with enough force to cause severe injury or death if the weapon is fired within a few inches of the body, especially if pointed at a particularly vulnerable spot, such as the temple or the eye. Although the paper wadding in the blank that Hexum discharged did not penetrate his skull,[7] the wad struck him in the temple with enough blunt force trauma to shatter a quarter-sized piece of his skull and propel the pieces into his brain.

According to a crew member on the set:

"Jon smiled and pulled the trigger. There was a loud bang and a bright flash, then black smoke. Jon screamed in agony, then looked kind of amazed as he slumped back onto the bed with blood streaming from a severe head wound. It was horrible."

Hexum's assistant ran to him and wrapped his head in a towel. An ambulance was called, but before it could arrive, Hexum slipped into a coma, prompting crew members to carry him to one of the studio's station wagons and drive him to Beverly Hills Medical Center. Hexum went into surgery as his family and girlfriend, actress Elizabeth Daily, were notified of his condition. Initially he was listed as being in "serious" condition, but after five hours of surgery, doctors changed the condition to "critical". Hexum was intubated and connected to a respirator, and lingered for six days before doctors pronounced him brain dead. With his mother's permission, Hexum was flown to San Francisco and taken off life support so that his organs could be donated.[8]

Hexum's death from on-set firearms negligence with blank rounds occurred in similar circumstances to that of another famous actor, Brandon Lee, in 1993. In Lee's case, however, the fatal discharge occurred as a result of prop team negligence (firing a dummy round with an intact primer, causing a squib load, and then unintentionally firing the stuck bullet out of the barrel with a blank round), instead of negligence by the actor.

The same month that Hexum died, an issue of Playgirl magazine came out, featuring a photo shoot that Hexum had done shortly before his demise.

In 1999, Jennifer O'Neill was interviewed for the show Mysteries and Scandals, where she criticized the bad management at the set of Cover Up, which required the actors to stay at the set up to 18 hours a day. She described Hexum as overworked and tired at the time of his accident.
 
hmmm... my mistake, Brandon Lee was killed by a squib:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee

On March 31, 1993, the film crew filmed a scene in which Lee's character walked into his apartment and discovered his girlfriend being raped by thugs. Actor Michael Massee, who played one of the film's villains, was supposed to fire a gun at Lee as he walked into his apartment with groceries.

Because the movie's second unit team were running behind schedule, it was decided that dummy cartridges (cartridges that outwardly appear to be functional, but contain no gunpowder) would be made from real cartridges. A cartridge with only a primer and a bullet was fired in the pistol prior to the scene. It caused a squib load, in which the primer provided enough force to push the bullet out of the cartridge and into the barrel of the revolver, where it became stuck.

The malfunction went unnoticed by the crew, and the same gun was used again later to shoot the death scene, having been re-loaded with blanks. However, the squib load was still lodged in the barrel, and was propelled by the blank cartridge's explosion out of the barrel and into Lee's body. Although the bullet was traveling much more slowly than a normally fired bullet would be, the bullet's large size and the extremely short firing distance made it powerful enough to mortally wound Lee.

When the blank was fired, the bullet shot out and hit Lee in the abdomen. He fell down instantly and the director shouted "CUT!" but Lee did not respond. The cast and crew filming rushed to him and noticed he was wounded. He was immediately rushed to the hospital where the doctors tried to revive him for five hours. It was too late however and he was pronounced dead at 1.03pm.
 
Don't know about other cities but in Ottawa - we've had a rash of prank gun calls lately- the standard policy is for teachers etc to MAKE all students hide under desks, paralyzed with fear. While this may be convenient for the authorities (why else they would do it?) it strikes me that having all your potential victims immobilized in one place is even more convenient for a would-be mass murderer. Can someone on tihs board explain the logic of this policy?:confused:

So you'd rather have everyone run around, making identification of the shooter impossible and also exposing a lot more people to gunfire?

Lockdown exists primarily for containment purposes. You contain people in separate areas so that they cannot leave and new people cannot enter, reducing the number of people exposed to harm. It also allows easy identification of the perp since that's the only guy not following the lockdown. Finally it reduces chaos and confusion (which itself is a hazard).
 
So you'd rather have everyone run around, making identification of the shooter impossible and also exposing a lot more people to gunfire?

Lockdown exists primarily for containment purposes. You contain people in separate areas so that they cannot leave and new people cannot enter, reducing the number of people exposed to harm. It also allows easy identification of the perp since that's the only guy not following the lockdown. Finally it reduces chaos and confusion (which itself is a hazard).

Lock down is one thing. Hiding under your desk is another.

Get an ambush ready to take the bad guy out if they try and enter.
 
So you'd rather have everyone run around, making identification of the shooter impossible and also exposing a lot more people to gunfire?

Lockdown exists primarily for containment purposes. You contain people in separate areas so that they cannot leave and new people cannot enter, reducing the number of people exposed to harm. It also allows easy identification of the perp since that's the only guy not following the lockdown. Finally it reduces chaos and confusion (which itself is a hazard).

I was looking for a reason for containment in the first place as opposed to allowing people to attempt to escape. Here are a couple of alternative approaches:

http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/school_shooting.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3050247&page=1
 
that was Bruce Lee's kid, wasn't it?


He was killed by a bullet that had previously lodged in the barrel. It had come from a cartridge used to do close up shots and the primer had not been removed. There was enough of a charge to send the round into the barrel. When a blank (home made by the special effects people) was fired later with 1/2 charge, there was enough energy to dislodge the bullet and kill Brandon Lee.
 
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What I just can"t believe about this latest tragedy is that the news media happily recounts the bs ideas that these sick idiots have.
The POS who did the last one sent a video before he carried out the act. That video should only have been shown to police and phsychiatrists, and the message sent out loud and clear, if you want to kill yourself and others, then society will not listen to your sick ramblings.
Same for this latest prick and his "war on humanity". What"s to stop some other idiot picking up on this and joining in his war? The media should display some responsible behaviour, they"re good enough at taking the high moral stance on gun control!
Sorry about my slightly ot ramblings, but I"m tired and grouchy!
 
The media display moral behaviour? That won't sell news... dumb celebrities and tragedy's, thats the money ticket... :(
 
Remember "There is no truth in the news and no news in the truth." News agencies are revenue generating entities. Their primary goal is to make money, not inform the public.

TDC
 
I was looking for a reason for containment in the first place as opposed to allowing people to attempt to escape. Here are a couple of alternative approaches:

http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/school_shooting.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3050247&page=1

Using hand-to-hand combat against a gun-wielding psycho isn't an alternative to lockdown, it's a last resort measure. You lock the school down, and if someone miraculously has the presence of mind (and the ability) to confront and disable an attacker without getting himself killed, then so much the better.
 
TDC said:
"...a great reminder why everyone should carry first aid supplies as well as more serious kit when they go to the range or even in the car. Blood loss is blood loss, too much is a very bad thing..."
Yup ...in fact, the FA kits that I keep in my car, at the house and up at the cottage each have a sealed CF field dressing in them (old habits are hard to break).

In a pinch, a disposable diaper - unused - makes a good improvised dressing when you're dealing with more than a little blood; I actually put that to the test several years ago when my thigh was punctured by a deer antler (long story) and my little guy was still in diapers ...it worked great.

:cool:
 
I'd say the muzzle energy is more like 100 ft/lbs from a .22LR pistol
I chronied Federal champion 36gr hp from a 4.6in barreled handgun and got a readiong of around 915fps (IIRC) that's about 67 ft-lbs...

But I don't even think for a second that .22LR isn't capable in killing someone. Even .22CB laod can be deadly...
 
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