.223 for everything, the gunnutz version

saskgunowner101 said:
You know, I've appreciated reading a lot of your posts over the years, but you really do get bent out of shape over the 223 for hunting posts here. I highly doubt that anyone and everyone who has used a 223 for deer is recoil shy.
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Nope, not bent out of shape at all... However, I do believe that when you approach the margins of feasibility, you need to tread carefully, plan carefully, chose your shots carefully and execute carefully... in my experience, many hunters do not have the capacity for that much care... and that results in more wounding loss than is acceptable. If any particular shooter takes the pains to get it done properly, more power to you... but at the margins, I believe human nature being what it is, there will be guys out there squeezing and praying, when the shot angle is wrong or the distance is too far or the animal is moving, or, or, or...

I would far rather see us promoting choices that minimize the chances of shyte going wrong, rather than maximizing the chances of bad outcomes. This is just my opinion, but when these threads pop up, I feel like someone has to represent a more cautious approach.
 
Luke60 said:
Once an idiot always one
Put away your big gun .... fairy
the 223 will never replace a 22 LR ....lmao
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If its idiocy, it should be easy to prove the 223 with the bullets we are talking about isn't up to the job.

You have proof, right?

Or do we just feel like some chest thumping for whatever reason tonight? Which is fine too lol
 
Luke60 said:
Once an idiot always one
Put away your big gun .... fairy
the 223 will never replace a 22 LR ....lmao
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At who is this post directed ?
For a new member you sure don't worry about making disparaging remarks, especially when the Members I think this is directed at don't even use 22 center fires for deer
Cat
 
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hoytcanon said:
Nope, not bent out of shape at all... However, I do believe that when you approach the margins of feasibility, you need to tread carefully, plan carefully, chose your shots carefully and execute carefully... in my experience, many hunters do not have the capacity for that much care... and that results in more wounding loss than is acceptable. If any particular shooter takes the pains to get it done properly, more power to you... but at the margins, I believe human nature being what it is, there will be guys out there squeezing and praying, when the shot angle is wrong or the distance is too far or the animal is moving, or, or, or...

I would far rather see us promoting choices that minimize the chances of shyte going wrong, rather than maximizing the chances of bad outcomes. This is just my opinion, but when these threads pop up, I feel like someone has to represent a more cautious approach.
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I'll gladly take back what I had said in the previous post. You nailed it here.(y)
 
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Going to try and be more open minded...HA.

I like the .223 a ton for the obvious reasons so I'm going to try it out on some bigger game...Maybe.

Scored a bunch of Sierra 64gr TGK's...Not what the proponents of the .223 for everything are using Sierra 77gr TMK's they're on order.

Sierra actually says these 64 TGK's are made heavy duty for up to deer sized game...They claim the 77gr TMK's are not.

I normally use a 22-250 with 55gr Ballistic Tips which kill explosively with little penetration on the well put together beaver...Also at times I use the .223 loaded with 69gr SMK's...They penetrate but not nearly the trauma and instant kill.

I'm going to start by shooting some beavers with the 64gr TGK's and if they penetrate with enough trauma and do a good job on beaver I'll try them out on a spring bear.

I loaded them up with close to the same recipe I use for the 69gr SMK...Ends up they shoot the same POI and hold sub MOA out to 400 yards as the 69ers...Dynamite !

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.223/22-250 compared
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crazy_davey said:
I think we might have a Spruster in our midst…
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Think you just nailed it

Lastgun said:
Sierra actually says these 64 TGK's are made heavy duty for up to deer sized game...They claim the 77gr TMK's are not.[/img]
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According to one fellow in the Rokslide thread who works for/with the military, the 77gr TMK was made for two legged game.
 
Joel said:
Think you just nailed it


According to one fellow in the Rokslide thread who works for/with the military, the 77gr TMK was made for two legged game.
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The regular MK is, that's what's packed into the MK262 Mod.1 loading. The TMK is supposed to be a similar design, but featuring a polymer tip obviously, so I suppose it could have been made to wreck "long pig".
 
mikeyb said:
The regular MK is, that's what's packed into the MK262 Mod.1 loading. The TMK is supposed to be a similar design, but featuring a polymer tip obviously, so I suppose it could have been made to wreck "long pig".
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Hahaha maybe! Thats what Form says. *shrug*
 
I've been in on 5 deer kills with the 77gr tmk/223. All under 100 yards. Lots of damage. All broadsideish lung shots, some caught some shoulder on 1 side. No big exits. Usually none to be found. Deer ran 5 to 40 yards. Not alot of blood on the ground. Again lots of damage. I was pushing them harder than most with 8208. Probably not the best idea if your not shooting past 100 I was told. They say at 2700 fps you get better exits. I was closer to 2900.
Tons of deer get shot every year with a tough 55 gr sp in 223. They penetrate better than you think. A sierra 1365 will exit about half the time. There are other really good tough sp for the 223. I know the 77 gr tmk is not one of them it's kinda a heavier slower fragmenter but penetrates plenty probably due to its length. Just don't push the impact velocities too high.

Deer guns for me personally start with the 270. Then I don't have to worry about angles or ranges. But. Smaller stuff is very capable. Bucks just don't always stand there broadside for you. And in my opinion they aren't as forgiving if I gotta take non broadside shots.
 
Hand Skills said:
Because ELD-X

todbartell shot an elk in the in the shoulder one year and the bullet failed to make it to the vitals. That was a .338. 225gr ELDX IIRC.

Does that mean the 338WM is too small for elk? No, it means if you shoot enough animals, you're goona see some weird stuff.

The sheer number of different people showing strange and inconsistent results with ELD-X speaks to the BULLET not the HEADSTAMP.



It's not though. Most .243's come with a 1:10 twist to maximize velocity of light for cal bullets.

Light for cal bullets at warp speed work great when they are all copper, but the leaded ones can grenade, coming apart into fragments resulting in a wide but shallow wound should the target present any resistance at all

A 6Creedmoor with a 1:8 twist - heavy for cal 105-115gr is a whole different animal.

This isn't new - guys be shooting heavy for cal in fast twist 7x57's (1:8.6") for over 100yrs. It works better than it 'should'. The slow muzzle velocities aren't very attractive, but appropriately stabilized heavy for caliber sure is 🤠
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I use a .338 mag with ELD Hornady factory loads. Shoots well but fire a few rounds at 50 yards into 2l pop bottles filled with water and didn't make it through the first bottles, the rest were holed like shot with buckshot. Complete bullet failure. Maybe at 300 yards would hold together. Personally not impressed. Use old reliable Remington 250 grain corelokt, always had good performance with Corelokt.
 
Mike Webb said:
I use a .338 mag with ELD Hornady factory loads. Shoots well but fire a few rounds at 50 yards into 2l pop bottles filled with water and didn't make it through the first bottles, the rest were holed like shot with buckshot. Complete bullet failure. Maybe at 300 yards would hold together. Personally not impressed. Use old reliable Remington 250 grain corelokt, always had good performance with Corelokt.
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If its gonna reliably expand as far out as they say it will, something has to give eh?
 
How fast was that 338 going? From what I have read they wants to be on the slower side (~2600 fps) thats why they work when they are extra heavy for caliber. They aren't being driven too fast. I'd like to see a 270-300gr eld-m bullet in the 338
 
Evanguy said:
How fast was that 338 going? From what I have read they wants to be on the slower side (~2600 fps) thats why they work when they are extra heavy for caliber. They aren't being driven too fast. I'd like to see a 270-300gr eld-m bullet in the 338
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Box says 2815 at muzzle 230 grain bullet. My 338 has a 21 inch barrel so likely around 2700 fps. Seems to me it's a long range bullet designed for accuracy and terminal performance is secondary. A jug full of water causing complete failure isn't great. Heavy bone would be even worse imo.
 
Mike Webb said:
Box says 2815 at muzzle 230 grain bullet. My 338 has a 21 inch barrel so likely around 2700 fps. Seems to me it's a long range bullet designed for accuracy and terminal performance is secondary. A jug full of water causing complete failure isn't great. Heavy bone would be even worse imo.
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Could be. Or they want it expanding nicely at 500+ yards and that means at 100 it comes unglued.
 
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