223 For Whitetail ?

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M16LR.50

M16LR.50

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I know that most of the hunting board prefers hunting with 243 or 308 at a minimum). However, I have seen a few members lament about wishing they could take their AR15s into the bush for hunting. In calibre based discussions, a lot of the seasoned hunters typically say "it isn't illegal but I would not use a 223" and so forth. I admit, right now there aren't many reasons to do so (better calibre options etc) - However, if, for saying sake, the AR15 platform gets moved to non-restricted via C42s provisions, there will undoubtably be more value to this question as there will probably be a small spike in black rifle hunting (ARs specifically) within the first year or two... whether that falls off thereafter is another thing.

So, are there any hunters out there that actually take deer with their 223 rifles? Was the track & recovery any more difficult than your other years using the typical bigger hunting cartridges?
 
Many are confident in their .223 on WT, others prefer larger chamberings.

With proper bullet selection and bullet placement(vital organs) there is no reason it won't work.I cannot say from experience as we are restricted to minimum .23 in Saskatchewan for centerfire.

Others will chime in with there experience on game with it.

It boils down to confidence in your abilities and your gear.
 
I would not use it for our muley's around here for sure but my AR would meet and greet a few coyotes and lots of gophers, if legalized.

I would buy a .308 AR for deer, for sure.
 
I wouldnt use one. I own both a .223 and a .30-06, both bolt action hunting rifles. I would much rather the stopping power of a 150gr bullet over a 55-60 grain bullet. That being said, my brother uses a 25-06 for everything from coyotes to moose. For elk and moose, most would say a 25-06 is too light, however my brother is one hell of a shot, and has never ever lost an animal. Shot placement is everything, as well as the legalities. Most provinces have in their regulations where a .243 is the smallest calibur to use on big game. If my hunting partner ever came in the truck with an AR15 during a whitetail hunt, I dont think I'd want to go hunting with him. There is a reason that hunters use bolt actions...they are more accurate....not that it helps most of us out! That's my 2 cents.
 
It will boil down to how many deer you've shot, how competent you are at judging shot angles and placement, and how well you know your game's anatomy. Will it work with a quality hunting bullet (Partition, TSX)? Absolutely. Is it the best, or even a "good" choice? No, it is marginal and delineates the very bottom of the scale for deer.

My advice would be chose a more appropriate chambering, unless deathly afraid of recoil, hunting in an area where noise must be kept to a bare minimum, etc. In those applications, sure it makes sense and could work. For a general field gun, you can do a good deal better.

All this long windedness complete, would I look down on a practiced hunter using it? Absolutely not.
 
And if I saw you riding a unicycle on a shopping trip to the local grocery store, I would never say it can't be done. I would, however, be seriously compelled to ask, "Why would you want to do that?"
 
rral22 said:
And if I saw you riding a unicycle on a shopping trip to the local grocery store, I would never say it can't be done. I would, however, be seriously compelled to ask, "Why would you want to do that?"
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Answer - Because he can.

If I get the doe draw I applied for, I'll be using my Tavor to fill it. It's just a question of the bullet type. Certainly not going to be a highly frangible varmint bullet. Recommendations?
 
The AR15 platform isn't moving anywhere. As to the .223 for deer, it depends on where you are. Isn't legal everywhere(It is not 'Most Provinces" at all.). AB, for example, says 6mm or bigger for 'big game'. Elsewhere, like Ontario where it's "any Centre Fire" and others Provinces are silent altogether. However, using a .223 depends on the bullet.
Factory ammo is usually loaded with varmint bullets(generally under 80 grains. Nosler makes a 60 grain Partition though. So it's more about the bullet's construction these days.) that are not suitable for deer sized game. The issue for most hunters in an FNG who doesn't reload runs out and buys factory ammo with say a V-Max and goes deer hunting. Result is a severely wounded deer(assuming the FNG even sees a deer) that runs off to die a slow painful death.
 
Sierra gets asked "Which 223 bullet for deer?" a lot. I called and asked because I have a 12ga/222 combo gun.

They suggested the 69 gr MatchKing, if your rifle has a 1:9 or faster twist. Failing that, the 60 gr HollowPoint. I found the 60 gr HP had excellent penetration and expansion. It did not blow up.

Ontario deer are usually shot at closer range (25 to 50 yards) so good shot placement is possible. A boileroom shot with a 223 is deadly.
 
I don't think of myself as a FNG in the game fields.

My go to hunting rifles for the past decade has been one of my Shiloh 45-70 or 50-70 Sharps rifles. Prior to that, one of my several .308's. Largest 6 point Mule Deer I've taken to date fell to my M1 Garand. One moose with a 45-70, t'other with a 50-70. The .223 would be an aberration and a new hunting experience.

Mule deer here are not very large and seldom seen beyond 100 yds, if that far. I'd be going for a neck shot which tends to drop ungulates like a lightning bolt. I know my limitations with all my rifles and don't take shots I'm not confident about.
 
Ganderite said:
Sierra gets asked "Which 223 bullet for deer?" a lot. I called and asked because I have a 12ga/222 combo gun.

They suggested the 69 gr MatchKing, if your rifle has a 1:9 or faster twist. Failing that, the 60 gr HollowPoint. I found the 60 gr HP had excellent penetration and expansion. It did not blow up.

Ontario deer are usually shot at closer range (25 to 50 yards) so good shot placement is possible. A boileroom shot with a 223 is deadly.
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I've used .308 Match Kings on deer and they work. I'll look for some in .223 and some 60 HP's.
 
I think a bolt action 223 or a single shot 45-70 would be a terrific rife for a new hunter. It would really force them to make the first shot count.

Those of us with experience already know that shot placement is everything. I cringe when i see newbies with semi-autos. They are already thinking the second shot when they fire the first.
 
can you drive a framing nail with a finishing hammer?
sure..... but why would you bother when there are so many better hammers out there for the task.

in my opinion poodle shooters are for varmits
 
Ganderite said:
I think a bolt action 223 or a single shot 45-70 would be a terrific rife for a new hunter. It would really force them to make the first shot count.

Those of us with experience already know that shot placement is everything. I cringe when i see newbies with semi-autos. They are already thinking the second shot when they fire the first.
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Not arguing the semi vs bolt for hunting position per se... The 223 AR15 was mentioned as it is the most popular semi-auto in that calibre that currently cannot see hunting usage (and the highest on on the list that people would probably advocate moving to NR), and so, the 223 position is not particularly discussed as a hunting option... But from your reply, it seems you are also of the opinion that 223 is OK for deer...
 
45ACPKING said:
can you drive a framing nail with a finishing hammer?
sure..... but why would you bother when there are so many better hammers out there for the task.

in my opinion poodle shooters are for varmits
Click to expand...

Seems to be the general consensus among most.

Americans seem to be more open to using 223 (coincidentally in ARs) on deer... Although any random youtube search will find examples of what Ganderite addressed above... Less respect for the accuracy and consideration of the first shot, because multiple follow up shots are "there..."
 
well all the 223 and now 22 250 I have owned shot like lazer beams and I would use them on whitetails no problem ,Its is all about putting a good bullet were you want ti and with the 22 250 I have right now that would not be any problem out to 250 yards with a great rest even farther ,.would a 223 or 22 250 make a great bush gun for deer camp not likely .will it work to pick one of behind the family barn yard standing out in the hay field ..heck ya ,,Dutch
 
First off, I'd love to see the day when my fellow firearms enthusiasts can hunt with an AR15 rifle. I think that with all the available caliber conversions for the AR platform, a guy wanting to use one for hunting could have several uppers, each for it's own task from varmits to elk , from brush gun to long range ect
 
Robert Ruark is quoted as saying - "Use enough gun." He was specifically referring to dangerous African game, not 125-150 lb. deer.

I know guys who believe that you are underarmed if you aren't packing a .300/338 Magnoon for game in BC. Perhaps if Grizzly's are your intended game or you are hunting in country where encountering a Grizzly might be an issue.

The BC regs allow deer and bear to be taken with "centrefire" cartridges, to include the .222/.223 cartridges. The only mention of ballistics is when it comes to Bison - 175 gr or larger bullet which retains 2,712 joules (2000 ft. lbs.) of energy at 100m. That rules out my 45-70's and 50-70's, cartridges that have dropped tens of thousands of Bison.

So much for bureaucratic opinion on cartridge ballistics.

If a hunter feels confident (and many do) using a .223 within it's limitations, anyone else's opinion is just that - an opinion, not necessarily based on experience. There are several bolt action and non-restricted .223's out there in hunter's hands.
 
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