223 Remington being picky
- Thread starter DGY
- Start date
personally i would totally agree with above - and lengthen the throat - the rifle as-is will handicap you for getting the performance out of that round.
I would think that rifle, when throated properly, will put 69 smk's or 60 vmax's into a wee-bitty group at 100yds.
I would think that rifle, when throated properly, will put 69 smk's or 60 vmax's into a wee-bitty group at 100yds.
I find .223 to be one of the most forgiving calibers to load for. My 40 year old Remington 700 heavy barrel pretty much stacks 60 grain and lighter bullets into dime size or smaller 5 shot groups all day if I'm on my game at 100 yards. Multple powders work about the same. H322, Win 748, Cfe 223 or IMR 3031. Even shoots Campro 55g FMJ's about the same as expensive target bullets. Berger bullets shoots the best. Think they were 52 or 53 grain.
It's 1-12 rifling due to it's age, but the most accurate rifle I've ever shot or owned Vintage Leopold 6 to 20x scope on it.
It's 1-12 rifling due to it's age, but the most accurate rifle I've ever shot or owned Vintage Leopold 6 to 20x scope on it.
I`ve loaded a lot of different cartridges and found the .223 Rem. to be the most forgiving and easiest. It is harder to find a load that won`t shoot than it is to find a good load. It will digest anything from 4198 to 4895 with my favorites being H322, Benchmark and 4895. I`ve loaded for six different .223s ( never a CZ). They all shot great with any of my c.hosen 3 powders. If a .223 won`t shoot with a near max. load of Benchmark or H4895 and a 50 - 55 bullet there is something else wrong. It is probably the best cartridge there is to learn how to reload.
As others have said it tends to be fairly easy to reload for. I have had good results using blc2, 3031, 748, varget etc.
One bullet that has worked really well for me in a few rifles is the hornady 68grn Hpbt match bullet. I get similar results as the 69 SMK and at least around my neck of the woods it’s much cheaper.
Hope you get it sorted out.
One bullet that has worked really well for me in a few rifles is the hornady 68grn Hpbt match bullet. I get similar results as the 69 SMK and at least around my neck of the woods it’s much cheaper.
Hope you get it sorted out.
People rave about CZ rifles, yet i see endless posts like this about them.
As others have said, either get a gunsmith to fix the throat, or get rid of it and buy something that will shoot. 223 is so easy to reload for, you shouldn't have to be handicapped by a problem rifle.
As others have said, either get a gunsmith to fix the throat, or get rid of it and buy something that will shoot. 223 is so easy to reload for, you shouldn't have to be handicapped by a problem rifle.
Most of potential causes of inaccuracy have been addressed above,
A powder that I have settled on, for a number of reasons is TAC. I also use it with lighter bullets that may , or may not, surprise you. Specifically the Hornady 40 grain Vmax and Sierra 40 grain Blitzking. You never know
A powder that I have settled on, for a number of reasons is TAC. I also use it with lighter bullets that may , or may not, surprise you. Specifically the Hornady 40 grain Vmax and Sierra 40 grain Blitzking. You never know
First, make sure all items on the rifle are tight and proper. If the bedding is sloppy, get that sorted out first. Loose bedding is super common in massed produced factory rifles and there is no way to get consistent accuracy if thing are sloshing around.
For the Vmax, I would set the ogive to be 5 to 10 thou OFF the lands. Set once and forget about it.
Using current reload data and fireformed brass sized to fit your chamber, start at the lowest listed loads for varget. Yes, what is referred as starting loads.
Hodgdon reloading center data lists that as 23.5gr to 25gr as a compressed load depending on the bullet. Given the shorter throat, it will likely prefer being close to start loads.
Start at 23.5gr and go up in 0.2gr increments with 3rds per step. It will be real obvious where the rifle wants to shoot and I doubt it will be much over 24.5gr if not well below. If 23.5gr was the best load, don't be shy to start at 23gr and work up in 0.1gr increments.
I have just tested a new to me factory barrel with a shorter throat (ideal for my 50gr bullets). It looks like the rifle wants to be right on the start load with the 50gr speer TNTs, CCI450 and win brass. Have to confirm next time but the node looks to produce sub 1/2 MOA performance at 100yds.
I have shot many 223's and they have not been fussy BUT they all don't like hot loadings in general, unless you lengthen the throat and that creates other problems in light bullets.
Jerry
For the Vmax, I would set the ogive to be 5 to 10 thou OFF the lands. Set once and forget about it.
Using current reload data and fireformed brass sized to fit your chamber, start at the lowest listed loads for varget. Yes, what is referred as starting loads.
Hodgdon reloading center data lists that as 23.5gr to 25gr as a compressed load depending on the bullet. Given the shorter throat, it will likely prefer being close to start loads.
Start at 23.5gr and go up in 0.2gr increments with 3rds per step. It will be real obvious where the rifle wants to shoot and I doubt it will be much over 24.5gr if not well below. If 23.5gr was the best load, don't be shy to start at 23gr and work up in 0.1gr increments.
I have just tested a new to me factory barrel with a shorter throat (ideal for my 50gr bullets). It looks like the rifle wants to be right on the start load with the 50gr speer TNTs, CCI450 and win brass. Have to confirm next time but the node looks to produce sub 1/2 MOA performance at 100yds.
I have shot many 223's and they have not been fussy BUT they all don't like hot loadings in general, unless you lengthen the throat and that creates other problems in light bullets.
Jerry
Probably not alot of help from me, as any 223 I have loaded for liked almost any powder or bullet combination I have thrown at it. Even the cheapest 55 grain fmj or plated bullets available.
The H335 tends to give decent groups with the 55 grain bullets you have loaded, but it wouldn't be my top pick. As for the Varget, it's a great powder if you are loading heavier. It tends to be finicky with lighter weight bullets and I only tend to use it with 68+ grain bullets.
You mentioned CFE223, while it also does a bit better with a little heavier rounds, it is usually pretty consistent with 55 grain bullets. As others have mentioned H322 is by far my top choice for 223, from the lightest to the heaviest rounds it just plain shoots. Benchmark is also a phenomenal powder for alot of weights, including your 55 grain bullet.
H4895 and Accurate 2460 are also great performers, but tend to come into their own when you are stepping up a bit in weight, just like the Varget. For the 55's, I would try the CFE223 you have and H322 if you can get any. If it doesn't shoot with H322 I don't think it will...
The H335 tends to give decent groups with the 55 grain bullets you have loaded, but it wouldn't be my top pick. As for the Varget, it's a great powder if you are loading heavier. It tends to be finicky with lighter weight bullets and I only tend to use it with 68+ grain bullets.
You mentioned CFE223, while it also does a bit better with a little heavier rounds, it is usually pretty consistent with 55 grain bullets. As others have mentioned H322 is by far my top choice for 223, from the lightest to the heaviest rounds it just plain shoots. Benchmark is also a phenomenal powder for alot of weights, including your 55 grain bullet.
H4895 and Accurate 2460 are also great performers, but tend to come into their own when you are stepping up a bit in weight, just like the Varget. For the 55's, I would try the CFE223 you have and H322 if you can get any. If it doesn't shoot with H322 I don't think it will...
Back from the range after some talking with Jerry from mystic precision. I think I like no6 but the velocity of no8 hahaha.
So now that there is something to work with I will load more and see how consistent they are. Keep in mind that this is not a target rifle, it is not in a chassis and it doesn’t have a $3k 10-36x scope on it.
My goal is to have something that is consistently printing moa groups. But even more important to me is to be able to practice marksmanship in field position to 300m(maybe 400) hitting 8-10” plates consistently, practicing wind reading etc.
Just something to play with that doesn’t cost as much as my big game hunting rifles.
So now that there is something to work with I will load more and see how consistent they are. Keep in mind that this is not a target rifle, it is not in a chassis and it doesn’t have a $3k 10-36x scope on it.
My goal is to have something that is consistently printing moa groups. But even more important to me is to be able to practice marksmanship in field position to 300m(maybe 400) hitting 8-10” plates consistently, practicing wind reading etc.
Just something to play with that doesn’t cost as much as my big game hunting rifles.
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Try shooting some 10 or 15 round groups.
.223 is about the easiest round to hand load for in my experience that shoots well with a bewildering variety of quality bullets, powder, mild to hot loads, and all manner of primers and brass. Much like factory loaded GMM, I have found good loads tend to transcend rifles and shoot well in anything I put them through assuming it has a good barrel with an appropriate twist and care was taken to assemble the ammo, paying particular attention to runout (I use Redding match dies). I don't dyck with 'touching the lands' or any of that crap - I run them at mag length and sometimes they need a fair skate to the rifling, but if they are concentric to start and a bit of crimp gives them all consistent neck tension, I've never seen it make a difference between guns that invariably have different throat measurements.
My CZ600 Alpha is shooting service match loads I loaded 15 years ago quite well, but the freebore on it isn't tight like yours.
the 1:9 twist barrel should handle anything ranging from 50 to ~70 grain bullets, but for the longer/heavier stuff and such a short throat I'd tend to try a VLD type bullet with a secant ogive...at least until the freebore is fixed.
.223 is about the easiest round to hand load for in my experience that shoots well with a bewildering variety of quality bullets, powder, mild to hot loads, and all manner of primers and brass. Much like factory loaded GMM, I have found good loads tend to transcend rifles and shoot well in anything I put them through assuming it has a good barrel with an appropriate twist and care was taken to assemble the ammo, paying particular attention to runout (I use Redding match dies). I don't dyck with 'touching the lands' or any of that crap - I run them at mag length and sometimes they need a fair skate to the rifling, but if they are concentric to start and a bit of crimp gives them all consistent neck tension, I've never seen it make a difference between guns that invariably have different throat measurements.
My CZ600 Alpha is shooting service match loads I loaded 15 years ago quite well, but the freebore on it isn't tight like yours.
the 1:9 twist barrel should handle anything ranging from 50 to ~70 grain bullets, but for the longer/heavier stuff and such a short throat I'd tend to try a VLD type bullet with a secant ogive...at least until the freebore is fixed.
