.223 Varget and the cold

KITIMAT TOM

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I was at the Range today with my Savage axis in .223 rem.I had loaded up 20 rounds of 40 grain Hornady v-max bullets with 10 rounds at 26.0 grains varget and 10 rounds with 27.0 grains of Varget.
First shot with the 26.0 grains felt under powered.Took the bolt out and had a look down the barrel and found at least 2 grains of unburnt Varget laying in the barrel.Tried a few more rounds after cleaning the barrel each time with the same results.

Now the weather is near freezing here today.So I figure the federal small rifle primers do not have enough horespower to burn this load of powder that is close to 96% case cap at 26.0 grains.Do they make a hotter or magnum small rifle primer?
Any powder ideas for extreme cold?
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Near freezing isn't exactly considered extremely cold. Varget was specifically designed to be temperature insensitive so I don't think this is what you're seeing here. How do you know that it seems under-powered? I wouldn't make that assertion until I put the load through a chronograph and saw the results first hand.

My speculation is that the unburnt powder is the result of a sitution where you have a light bullet with a relatively slow burning powder. Neither of these components are ideally suited for eachother.

Having said that, is it an accurate load combination? If it's good, just leave well enough alone. A couple of unburn kernals of powder isn't going to harm anything. It might be a little dirty but that wouldn't worry me for the Axis was intended to be used for.

If the accuracy and velocity isn't to you liking then try another powder. IMR4198, H322, Benchmark, H335, and a host of other well known favorites are ideal for that exact bullet weight.

You could try small rifle magnum primers. It's not going to hurt anything. Before you do so, make sure you drop back from the recommended maximum powder charge so you don't end up with a load that's way too hot pressure wise.
 
Leave the small magnum primers alone. .223 Rem uses normal SR primers. I think you'd be inviting pressure problems (accompanied by safety problems).

I shoot a couple different bullet weights from .223 with Varget powder. I use Federal GMM primers, and CCI primers. Just "Small rifle" primers. Nothing magnum. Very similar weight charges to you. I know that Varget is very "temperature tolerant" and this is important to me, since I tend to test in the cold, and compete in the hot. (Canada!) Varget has only ever shown minimal variations in pressure and velocity, such that I have never adjusted a load for climate extremes. Even the most compressed load of Varget I can cram into a 223 casing never goes overpressure in 30 plus degrees competing in the Southeast US or Ottawa in the summer, and I've never had problems in minus 10 and minus 20 winter testing and training with the same load back in Ontario...

My barrel is probably shorter than yours because I'm loading 223 for National Match AR15 (20 inches) so that (might) be a factor - but I doubt it. The gas system of the ARs function flawlessly in all temperatures with this same load. If Varget was burning any different in the cold, the gas gun would be the first to frig up. I also load a much bigger varget charge in my wife's 22-250. With her rifle, even in the cold, we've never seen unburned powder like you describe. And that 22-250 has almost 32 grains of varget burning to drive a bullet down 26 inches of barrel.

I'm thinking your problem might be with a bad lot of of primers, or something else in the load, rather than with the type of primer...

Avoid small magnum primers with 223. Just try different brand. I know that CCI shoots different that Federal with the same load. I can't say which is "hotter" - just that they make different velocities in the same load if all else is same-same.

Don't want to insult you here, and you probably know this - but trying to cover everything -- if you are messing with the primers and handling them too much, the priming compound might be degraded from oils on your skin. (That argument could go on for days) That could neuralize or diminish the flash temperature if you want to beleive the guys that say so... Maybe some crap in the casings left over from cleaning. (Or wet... horror!)

I've loaded several thousand pistol loads with Winchester primers and have had THREE misfires in the past year with punched primers, but unburned powder inside after pulling cartridges apart to see... I have loaded and fired so many rifle cartridges I can't even begin to count, but easily in the hundreds of thousands. Nothing but Federal Gold Medal Primers and perhaps 2000 CCI I tried out last year. I have NEVER loaded a cartridge that didn't fire in any of my rifles.

I think I'm suggesting that not all primers are equal in terms of quality control - and THAT is what you should be looking at.
 
I`ve done a little digging since I got home.The Varget used was the tail end of a 1lb`er that has not been used in a while.I was just going to use it up.I compared the old with the new 1lb and the old one seems to have no odor were the new Varget will knock your head of with the chemical smell. Starting to think the powder has gone bad being near empty for so long.
 
THAT makes sense. Varget has a pretty distinct small, doesn't it? I buy 8 pound jugs and it never goes stale in my shop. Nice to know that. I think if other powders go bad, they start to smell like varget :)
 
I'd be interested to have that lot# run by hogdon to see when it was made. I didn't think that it went bad anything close to soon.

I have encountered what you have though with brass that wasn't completely dry. Any chance some water got in there?
 
Water no.Condensation...................Maybe.I only heat my shop while I'm using it and the brass could have sweated a bit before I got it sealed up with the bullet.The brass was never damp to the exterior touch.



I'd be interested to have that lot# run by hogdon to see when it was made. I didn't think that it went bad anything close to soon.

I have encountered what you have though with brass that wasn't completely dry. Any chance some water got in there?
 
With so many potential variables who knows what it was? Just be more careful on your next reload to avoid situations where mistakes can happen.

If there was condensation, it wouldn't be a good thing. At this time of year when travelling to the range, keep the ammo out of your heated passenger compartment of your vehicle and store it in the cooler trunk area. You may already be doing this but you never mentioned it. Introducing warm ammo to cold air could produce condensation as well but I would be lead to believe it would happen more on the outside than the inside of the case.
 
Varget is a great powder when you are shooting the heavier bullets out of the .223 (assuming you manage to pack enough powder in the case).
Short barrel & 40gr VMax on the other hand, I'm siding with the people saying you should try one of the faster powders listed for .223 in your loading manual.
 
I loaded up another batch of 40grain V-max bullets to try with a new batch of Varget.Worked much better.Burned clean and the accuracy seems good.I have 300 50 grain bullets coming soon.I will be loading those with benchmark and W-748




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