243 win 105 berger vld, dead elk 688 yards

Superbrad said:
The other issue I have with John letting her take this shot is that he has the knowledge yet the firearm is in someone else's hands.... I don't know how many of you have done a lot of long range shooting but a critical part o fit is the ability to call off the shot at the last split second when conditions change.... and that only comes with HUGE amounts of practice....
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but in my world the guy with the spotting scope makes that call..not the shooter


well last year my Doe died at just shy of 400meters, this year my buck died at 43 paces,Now the wolves are out...cant wait!
 
There is always the option of not taking the shot at all. Seems many are too concerned with success or at least the notion that an attempt at sucess is a must.
I've read a few stories and articles by David Miller of Miller Rifles Inc. out of Arizona. He's as good or better than most at long range shooting of game and admits he passes up the majority of opportunities. Something to consider, and it doesn't solely apply to long range.
The "hunting" aspect is what leads up to the shot. Hence this video really has no excitement from a hunting perspective, IMO. Calling an elk in and shooting it from 30 yards as it breaks cover is what I would call exciting, but that's just me.
 
Jamie said:
but in my world the guy with the spotting scope makes that call..not the shooter


well last year my Doe died at just shy of 400meters, this year my buck died at 43 paces,Now the wolves are out...cant wait!
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Spotter calls it off... right up until trigger pull sequence... at that point, shooter or sniper is on his / her own...
 
Superbrad said:
Nice shot.... and look at the comments... look at the rounds he uses... no .243 in there.... also, he took teh shot himself... didn't leave it up to someone who hadn't practiced it.... big difference...
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but the spotter called the shot;)



this video bugs me.....why? the hold over I dont like them at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssh8Vsbvn2A
 
kman300: Goggle "bow hunting and femoral artery". You will find tons of discussion of whether or not it is ethical in bow hunting. The argument there is that the target, although always lethal very quickly if severed (it's an artery after all), is just too small to be used ethically. You must remember an arrow severs things like a razor.

A bullet, however often mangles and squashes its way and the resultant bleeding is often pinched off and minimized in muscle tissue (the femoral artery is surrounded by muscle). The fact is an arrow in the ass is sometimes far more quickly fatal than a bullet in the butt.

Just some facts, not ethics, although good ethical discussions can only happen if you know some facts.

By the way, I think you missed the whole point of my post.
 
Andy said:
You guys should compile a list of what makes someone a good "hunter". Together you're certainly smart enough. We need:

- acceptable chamberings by animal. We'll also need bullet weights and types, barrel twists and loads;
- acceptable distances. You'll need to advise on terrain and environmental conditions if that affects the acceptable maximum shot distance;
- type of blind. Are some kinds not allowed, i.e. if they're heated for example?
- clothing. Maybe some provides an unfair advantage;
- cost of equipment. Are Weatherbys allowed? A nice ATV?
- method of hunting. Only close stalks, or is a drive with dogs allowed?

I could see a panel of guys who could judge each hunt and declare whther or not it was "ethical", and if it's "hunting" or "shooting".

That would be good.
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Exactly what I was thinking Andy. Lots of armchair hunters here, ;)
 
I didn't read every post in this thread...well...just because. But what I think I am seeing here is 19 pages of posts before a derailment into archery hunting. Not bad...
 
rral22 said:
kman300: Goggle "bow hunting and femoral artery". You will find tons of discussion of whether or not it is ethical in bow hunting. The argument there is that the target, although always lethal very quickly if severed (it's an artery after all), is just too small to be used ethically. You must remember an arrow severs things like a razor.

A bullet, however often mangles and squashes its way and the resultant bleeding is often pinched off and minimized in muscle tissue (the femoral artery is surrounded by muscle). The fact is an arrow in the ass is sometimes far more quickly fatal than a bullet in the butt.

Just some facts, not ethics, although good ethical discussions can only happen if you know some facts.

By the way, I think you missed the whole point of my post.
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Please enlighten me in regards to the point of you post. I took from it, among other things, that you claim arrows kill just as fast as bullets and that an arrow in the butt is vastly superior to a bullet as a bullet is not effective but an arrow is. I dissagree with both those points and listed numberous examples of why I do. For someone so hung up on "ethics" why would you ever even suggest shooting a deer in the femoral artery when the vast majority of the populus thinks it unethical (and according to you, whatever the majority says make something ethical or not).

I am also still waiting for you to comment on the other examples I cited regarding killing moose on the road et al.

It doesn't make for a very good disscussion when you simply ignore many points I made and don't comment on them. The same can be said for several detailed posts I made regarding posts you made.

Cheers
 
I'm not commenting on the "other things" because this thread is about long range shooting.

My point is that we need to discuss how far is too far and have reasons for our decision. For get all that other stuff - for now. Forget the arrow thing too - for now. Don't believe it if you don't want, but you know diddly about bow hunting. That too is a fact. You didn't google it did you.

So, how far is too far? THAT is the question.
 
How far is too far?

I have your answer.

When you miss, that was too far.

Too far is totally based on the shooter or shooter/spotter and their abilities.

You can have clean kills at 68 or 688 yards.You can have misses at guess what, any distance also.

Those of you don't like the ethics portrayed, it's simple, don't hunt with those folks in the video or watch the next video that say "782 yard moose kill". They also have knitting and basket weaving sites on da internet.





rral22 said:
I'm not commenting on the "other things" because this thread is about long range shooting.

My point is that we need to discuss how far is too far and have reasons for our decision. For get all that other stuff - for now. Forget the arrow thing too - for now. Don't believe it if you don't want, but you know diddly about bow hunting. That too is a fact. You didn't google it did you.

So, how far is too far? THAT is the question.
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I could never make a shot that long. Its more of a skill than ethics thing for me, whos to say that taking animals under 100 yards is the right thing in all circumstances?

I'm speculating that some of the long range shooters get the "rush" feeling moments before, during and after their shot mainly because of all of their hard work at the range is paying off and they've finally put their practice to use compared to the undetected or whatever type of feeling short range guys get. Any comments from the long range guys (people who've taken an animal over 500 yards)?

I'd probably say theres also more slobs that take short shots at animals when its outside of their skill level compared to long range guys who practice more than once every year for 5 minutes.
 
rral22 said:
I'm not commenting on the "other things" because this thread is about long range shooting.

My point is that we need to discuss how far is too far and have reasons for our decision. For get all that other stuff - for now. Forget the arrow thing too - for now. Don't believe it if you don't want, but you know diddly about bow hunting. That too is a fact. You didn't google it did you.

So, how far is too far? THAT is the question.
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I see. You don't want to talk about ethics. You are fixated on one aspect of hunting you deem unethical and do not wish to have a discourse about other areas of hunting which are also considered by some to be unethical (road hunting, deer on apples etc).

I do not believe we need to have a discussion on how far is to far as this is very personal and depends on the individuals skill set and equipment. This line of thinking is what leads to stupid regulations such as caliber restrictions for hunting etc.

You are the one that brought up the arrow and bullet thing. Not me. You know "diddly" about what I know. Again you are assuming things without knowing.

I did google "whitetail femoral artery" and came up with this.

h ttp://www.imbmonsterbucks.com/info.php?id=57

A little excert:
Become familiar with deer anatomy, prior to heading for the timber. Approximately ten vital circulatory channels exist. The oblique cervical, is located in the mid-upper section of the neck. The jugular vein, lies in the mid-lower neck. Just below the jugular vein lies the carotid artery. The aortic arch and exterior pectoral lie close to the heart. The Interior Pectoral is located just above the legs. The Dorsal Aorta lies in the mid-upper back. The Posterior Vena Cava lies in front of the intestines, and leads to the heart. The Femoral Artery is located in the back hip. Do not select any of the circulatory channels, with the exception of the heart, for a target. Become aware of the composition of the circulatory system. This will assist in analyzing future tracking after the shot.


Cheers
 
I see. You don't want to talk about ethics. You are fixated on one aspect of hunting you deem unethical and do not wish to have a discourse about other areas of hunting which are also considered by some to be unethical (road hunting, deer on apples etc).
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So open a thread about those. This is about long distance shooting. Respond to it.

You are the one that brought up the arrow and bullet thing. Not me.
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Actually, you did. Go back and check. I responded to your statement "Takes critters a lot longer to die from a bow shot then a gun shot." as some sort of ethical argument.

And your google efforts have proved the femoral artery is considered a legitimate lethal target for bow hunters, but there is controversy about the ethics of it because it is hard to hit it. THAT is exactly what I said.

Please read this twice before you respond.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
How far is too far?

I have your answer.

When you miss, that was too far.

Too far is totally based on the shooter or shooter/spotter and their abilities.

You can have clean kills at 68 or 688 yards.You can have misses at guess what, any distance also.

Those of you don't like the ethics portrayed, it's simple, don't hunt with those folks in the video or watch the next video that say "782 yard moose kill". They also have knitting and basket weaving sites on da internet.
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That shot was reasonably beyond the shooters normal abilities... And that is not a long range shooting caliber... I shudder to think what this shameless advertiser has done and not posted on youtube...
 
Superbrad said:
I shudder to think what this shameless advertiser has done and not posted on youtube...
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And therein lies all the ethical argument.

If there are more than a very, very few wounded, un-recovered animals, then it is unethical for him to do that. I have a deep suspicion there were actually quite a few over the course of making those "successful" videos.
 
It was a video, how do you know her abilities? Apparently her abilities were there since she did make the shot,someone said earlier that it comes down to the shooter in the last moment not the spotter anyways.

What laws/rules dictate what range the caliber is capable of? Maybe a 30/30 is deadly in my hands out to 200 yards and in yours a .338 LM couldn't hit a bulls ass from across the street?

You have made your point of view clear over and over on this thread, I understand your ethical stand point, but yours will differ from others as well as abilities.

This is like someone imposing religion on someone, believe in my god because yours is wrong.

They hunted in a fashion that you didn't agree with, so be it and move on.

Also, when it comes to facts ,opinions and rumors................

A old man once told me believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.;)


Superbrad said:
That shot was reasonably beyond the shooters normal abilities... And that is not a long range shooting caliber... I shudder to think what this shameless advertiser has done and not posted on youtube...
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