243 win 105 berger vld, dead elk 688 yards

350 Mag said:
Whats to miss out on his experience???

Please explain???

I could get the same thrill shooting a steel gong at 900 yards...???



Obviously IF you haven't called in a Moose and shot it at close range then you probably don't know what I am talking about.....the noises they make when they come to the call....the grunting....the smashing of trees....you have to experience that.....then make your comments.

there is no comparison.....

One is target shooting/hunting......the other is REAL hunting....Yes both result in meat in the freezer....but you cannot argue CLOSER is MORE exciting....


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I agree with you 100% bud.. but what I have learned is that what they are doing from long range isn't wrong... it's what gets them their kicks... kind of like a reward for all of their long range practice...

I was a trained CF sniper and practiced countless 5-800 yard shots... but to me hunting is about going one on one with your prey... but that is me...

When I undertook my training I was fully confident in my abilities at 5-800... as long as they are willing to put in the practice to get that confidence then I am ok with it...

I do, however feel they are missing out.... and think it is more shooting than hunting.... after all, moose vitals are gong sized
 
Here is a REALLY good long range shot....great shooting....No editing here.....No infomercial selling a scope or rifle....just an average JOE getting the job done.....cool camp set-up on the boat....and hauls the quarters by himself.....

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I have to agree with the closer is better scenario.When I first started hunting it was the big thing to brag about the long difficult shot you made.Now there is no excitement in that.

I wrecked my bow and had to switch to rifle for the last bit of this season.The experience just isn't the same, almost plain and blah.That is why I switched to bow, to get closer and more into the hunt.

There is something to be said when you can hear the animal crunching food and bedding down only 20 yards away from ya!

I do however still like putting groups together and trying to hit golf balls as far as ya can with the rifle.;)
 
The 1100 yard moose and the long elk shot with the 243, were both set up to make a video to show on the world wide web. One had the added gimmick of selling their product.
And in spite of everything that's been said on here, I claim there was great danger of wounding either or both, of the animals.
What's the mv of the 300 magnum at 1100 yards? As a pure guess I would say maybe about a third less than the velocity of a 30-30 near the muzzle.
The moose fell down ass end first. In my mind there is not the slightest doubt, it was hit in the backbone, near the hips. Had the bullet been less than one minute of angle lower, the moose would have gone into the bush and died a horrible death, about three days later.
The moose video was set up to make it look like he just went on a normal hunt and shot the moose, all so cool, collected and casual.
He just happened to have a young daughter along, early in the morning.
Of course, had to have someone along to record this normal hunt, so it could be shown world wide.
I've studdied the video and no one will ever change my mind on how I interpretted the event.
 
Not judging but it looks like the moose kicked for a while, it appears to have turned around 180 degrees from how it fell and the gravel around it looks stirred up from it's struggles. I'm guessing he had to finish it off when he got there but just a guess.
 
H4831 said:
The 1100 yard moose and the long elk shot with the 243, were both set up to make a video to show on the world wide web. One had the added gimmick of selling their product.
And in spite of everything that's been said on here, I claim there was great danger of wounding either or both, of the animals.
What's the mv of the 300 magnum at 1100 yards? As a pure guess I would say maybe about a third less than the velocity of a 30-30 near the muzzle.
The moose fell down ass end first. In my mind there is not the slightest doubt, it was hit in the backbone, near the hips. Had the bullet been less than one minute of angle lower, the moose would have gone into the bush and died a horrible death, about three days later.
The moose video was set up to make it look like he just went on a normal hunt and shot the moose, all so cool, collected and casual.
He just happened to have a young daughter along, early in the morning.
Of course, had to have someone along to record this normal hunt, so it could be shown world wide.
I've studdied the video and no one will ever change my mind on how I interpretted the event.
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Oh come on.....how far is too far....MY ULTIMATE GOAL in hunting is too get a 20mm Anzio bolt action and a 80x scope and take a Moose from 10 miles away........make a vid and be uber cool on da web....

[youtube] XWzvm1_cSJ4 [/youtube]
 
In my opinion, most hunts you see on youtube were set up to be broadcast on youtube... it is less about the hunt and more about getting something on video... If I were a long range hunter I would likely take offense to many of these vids after some further study.... JMOP
 
I just don't understand why you have to be polarized as one or the other, a close-range hunter or a long-range hunter. I've shot animals as close as 15 yards, and as far as 942 yards. I've been sitting beside my hunter, as a guide, while he shot a caribou at 10 feet as it was coming toward us, and we nearly got run over. He did a nose dive and ended up at our feet. I've gotten to experience both the thrill of hunting animals up close, as well as the rush from shooting animals from a long way away. It's a different type of thrill, for sure, but both styles are exhilarating to me for different reasons. Nope, I don't think I'm "missing out" on a thing...
 
Jordan Smith said:
I just don't understand why you have to be polarized as one or the other, a close-range hunter or a long-range hunter. I've shot animals as close as 15 yards, and as far as 942 yards. I've been sitting beside my hunter, as a guide, while he shot a caribou at 10 feet as it was coming toward us, and we nearly got run over. He did a nose dive and ended up at our feet. I've gotten to experience both the thrill of hunting animals up close, as well as the rush from shooting animals from a long way away. It's a different type of thrill, for sure, but both styles are exhilarating to me for different reasons. Nope, I don't think I'm "missing out" on a thing...
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....simple fact....

For EVERY successful hunt they portray on Youtube there is bound to be a FEW that got away....theres too much to go wrong at 1000 yards....sadly....you will never see those videos on Best of the West or Greybulls' Youtube Channel.

It also falsely portrays to the viewing audience(some of which are novices) that if they go out and buy dat der UBER-Magnum rifle with dat der scope with dat fancy dial de will be able to take Elk, Moose and Deer out to 1000 yards too....as easy as the guys on the video.


John Burns(greybull) admitted on the thread over at 24hrcampfire that girl had never fired that rifle before in her life.....so does ANYONE advocate a 688 yard shot on an Elk with a .243 with a rifle you have never shot before???

I guess it is better to be lucky than good anyday of the week.
 
There are a few animals that get away from every hunter, at some point in their hunting career, no matter the range. Do you know anybody that is willing to take a running shot at game? Shooting at a running deer at 200 yards is just as risky as shooting at a standing deer at 688 yards, assuming you have the skills and equipment to effectively make either shot.

If a very experienced shooter tells the non-experienced shooter exactly where to hold, and dials the elevation into the turret for them, then as long as the shooter can hold the rifle steady, they will hit their target. I've coached several people into hitting gongs at beyond 600 yards with their first shot ever from the rifle by doing this exact same thing.

An inexperienced person taking a WAG and a long shot at a game animal (like an elk) with a .243 that they've never shot before is another story, entirely.
 
Jordan Smith said:
There are a few animals that get away from every hunter, at some point in their hunting career, no matter the range. Do you know anybody that is willing to take a running shot at game? Shooting at a running deer at 200 yards is just as risky as shooting at a standing deer at 688 yards, assuming you have the skills and equipment to effectively make either shot.

If a very experienced shooter tells the non-experienced shooter exactly where to hold, and dials the elevation into the turret for them, then as long as the shooter can hold the rifle steady, they will hit their target. I've coached several people into hitting gongs at beyond 600 yards with their first shot ever from the rifle by doing this exact same thing.

An inexperienced person taking a WAG and a long shot at a game animal (like an elk) with a .243 that they've never shot before is another story, entirely.
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Correct, but however silly this may seem in this day and age, there are still some of us around who won't take either shot because we don't feel 100% certain of making a kill. I've shot a pile of animals over the years and don't feel comfortable with either scenario on a healthy,not wounded animal.

I wounded a whitetail buck about 25 years ago at 550+ yards, never found him. I swore to myself from that day on ,no more "uncomfortable" shots. My self imposed limit is 400 yards now, pretty much regardless of the caliber of rifle or scopes mounted on them. This years' whitetail was 372 with a 308, the farthest in a few years. That's not to say I haven't wounded anything in the last 25 years, but I'm certain it's far less than what would have been had I not set myself a limit.
To those that can consistently kill at extreme ranges, my hat's off. Personally, I prefer shots around 100 yards; not too close, not too far. :)
 
A couple of sayings come to mind:

- A man's got to know his limitations

- You've only yourself to please

- The only man that's gotta live with your decisions, is you (okay, I made this one up)

Every scenario is different. I've passed on relatively close shots (sub-300 yards) because, for whatever reason, something didn't feel right about the shot, so I passed. Whether the wind, or my heavy breathing after running up a hill to cut off a deer, or whatever. I've also squeezed the trigger on much longer shots because everything felt right, and I knew that I had replicated such shots at gongs, balloons, milk jugs, etc.
 
I would rather hang a tag on the wall ....than take a risky shot....wound an animal.....not recover it.....and have a bad night's sleep....


IF your ego is so big that you cannot handle the thought of going home without an animal.....maybe you should take up another hobby???
 
Gatehouse said:
There is no flaw if you listen to the dialogue and understand how TV shows are made.

We hear him shoot and eject the case. Then he says " 2 to the boiler room and he drops"

There are 2 empty cases beside him.

The initial scene where he is seen "readying himself for the shot" is TV show stuff. They go back and film stuff after the fact for dramatic appeal. Like when you see a guy holding a bow at full draw, or see him lining up behind a scope. They do that after the animal is dead. :)

So he shot the moose twice, said out loud that he shot it twice, we see 2 spent cases next to him after the moose falls over....Only flaw is that they edited out the first shot, but it's not like he tried to cover up he took 2 shots.
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yep i agree
 
350 Mag said:
....simple fact....

For EVERY successful hunt they portray on Youtube there is bound to be a FEW that got away....theres too much to go wrong at 1000 yards....sadly....you will never see those videos on Best of the West or Greybulls' Youtube Channel.

It also falsely portrays to the viewing audience(some of which are novices) that if they go out and buy dat der UBER-Magnum rifle with dat der scope with dat fancy dial de will be able to take Elk, Moose and Deer out to 1000 yards too....as easy as the guys on the video.
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Uber Magnum 243? Pretty sure that was a regular 243 Winnie.....

350 Mag said:
John Burns(greybull) admitted on the thread over at 24hrcampfire that girl had never fired that rifle before in her life.....so does ANYONE advocate a 688 yard shot on an Elk with a .243 with a rifle you have never shot before???

I guess it is better to be lucky than good anyday of the week.
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How many guys have borrowed a rifle for ANY shot at game, period, where they've never fired that rifle before? I know I could dig up at least a dozen threads here where guys have emptied their rifle, or dropped their rifle, and their buddy hands them a different one so they can fling another round at a running whitetail or moose at 200 yards....Nobody jumps on those guys....But you will cast stones at a girl who assessed the situation, and accepted full responsibility for the shot.......

Last winter I took a buddy out to do some coyote hunting. Come about noon we hadn't seen too many and we're having lunch playing that "guess how far" game with the leica 1200. I point out a snow patch on a cliff face at a shade over 850 yards that is the size of a basket ball. Told him to range it, look at the chart, and send one from my 7wsm....While he didn't centerpunch it, it would have been a dead coyote.

Had another buddy who doesn't shoot as much as he should out deer hunting this fall. He figured he should check his zero. We set up a rock the size of a softball and backed off 380 yards. He poked a few out with his rifle, ended up with a group about the size of a beach ball. We backed off another 300 yards (680 on the nose for those of you playing along at home), he set up prone behind my Montana and ranged it. Consulted the chart, dialed it to the correct setting (after NEVER having looked at a MOA adjustable turret before), we discussed the swirling, gusting wind for a minute while he dryfired a few times, and then he SMOKED the softball sized rock. And then thumped out another 7 rounds in a couple of minutes that ALL would have killed a coyote.

Coach someone who shoots a little into making a good shot? Not impossible.

To the guys who are #####ing about the ethics of the shot itself, how many of you have EVER shot past 300 yards on an inanimate object? Of the guys who are saying it's feasable, how many have of YOU have shot past 300? How many of you have shot past 800?

No need to answer, I already know.....Those of us who do shoot at range, I'm betting we shoot a WHOLE lot more than those of you who want to fling your poo like angry monkeys.....
 
KodiakHntr said:
Uber Magnum 243? Pretty sure that was a regular 243 Winnie.....



How many guys have borrowed a rifle for ANY shot at game, period, where they've never fired that rifle before? I know I could dig up at least a dozen threads here where guys have emptied their rifle, or dropped their rifle, and their buddy hands them a different one so they can fling another round at a running whitetail or moose at 200 yards....Nobody jumps on those guys....But you will cast stones at a girl who assessed the situation, and accepted full responsibility for the shot.......

Last winter I took a buddy out to do some coyote hunting. Come about noon we hadn't seen too many and we're having lunch playing that "guess how far" game with the leica 1200. I point out a snow patch on a cliff face at a shade over 850 yards that is the size of a basket ball. Told him to range it, look at the chart, and send one from my 7wsm....While he didn't centerpunch it, it would have been a dead coyote.

Had another buddy who doesn't shoot as much as he should out deer hunting this fall. He figured he should check his zero. We set up a rock the size of a softball and backed off 380 yards. He poked a few out with his rifle, ended up with a group about the size of a beach ball. We backed off another 300 yards (680 on the nose for those of you playing along at home), he set up prone behind my Montana and ranged it. Consulted the chart, dialed it to the correct setting (after NEVER having looked at a MOA adjustable turret before), we discussed the swirling, gusting wind for a minute while he dryfired a few times, and then he SMOKED the softball sized rock. And then thumped out another 7 rounds in a couple of minutes that ALL would have killed a coyote.

Coach someone who shoots a little into making a good shot? Not impossible.

To the guys who are #####ing about the ethics of the shot itself, how many of you have EVER shot past 300 yards on an inanimate object? Of the guys who are saying it's feasable, how many have of YOU have shot past 300? How many of you have shot past 800?

No need to answer, I already know.....Those of us who do shoot at range, I'm betting we shoot a WHOLE lot more than those of you who want to fling your poo like angry monkeys.....
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I have shot past 800 yards at an inanimate object.... I was trained to do so...

During that training many others did not make the cut as they were, even after coaching, unable to complete the shot....

It's great that your buddies can shoot softball sized rocks and snow patches..... but they aren't game animals... all I would expect anyone to do before taking a shot at an animal si to practice that shot.....

And Elk, btw, are not inanimate objects
 
Analysis from "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting"

In his book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting" Brian Litz (Berger chief ballistician and a champion long range shooter) does an analysis of what it takes to kill a deer a 500 yards and 1000 yards.

The short story is that with a 30-06, a good rifle and good shooting skills you can easily hit and kill a deer at 500 yards if you can estimate wind speed with a 2mph error.

Using a much superior 7 Rem Mag driving a 180gr hunting VLD at 2900fps, it's simply impossible to guarantee a hit in a deer's vital zone with a 2mph wind speed error. From memory the bullet might hit anywhere with a 24" by 10" oval, of course something like 2/3 of the shot will fall in a 12" by 5" oval but 1/2 of the shots will be shot outside this oval.

In any case, the book is a great Christmas gift for any hunter or shooter interested in long range shooting/hunting.

Alex
 
Superbrad said:
I have shot past 800 yards at an inanimate object.... I was trained to do so...

During that training many others did not make the cut as they were, even after coaching, unable to complete the shot....

It's great that your buddies can shoot softball sized rocks and snow patches..... but they aren't game animals... all I would expect anyone to do before taking a shot at an animal si to practice that shot.....

And Elk, btw, are not inanimate objects
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Agree with this wholeheartedly.
I regularly shoot 1000 yards and a bit beyond on INANIMATE targets.[My best group at 1000 with a hunting rifle is 6-7/8"]
I practice, practice, practice with my hunting rifles out to 500+ yards.
I have set my personal limit at 500 for a broadside shot on a game animal, even though I am confident that I could kill one quite a bit farther out.
My 6mm's and 243 are limited to 400 on game animals.
I also must have conditions that are suitable for the shot, and that includes a steady rest.
I have lost one animal in my hunting career of 54 years, a smallish muley. I suspect the bullet I was using at the time failed to expand.
Regardless of the reason, I still remember the "sick" feeling that flooded over me when I realized I was not going to recover an animal that I knew I hit.
If that cow Elk had decided to take a step when that gal touched off that shot, there would have been a very different scenario, one that I suspect we would not have seen on the web.
If, and only If, there had been plenty of practice by the SHOOTER with that equipment before the shot was taken at game, then it might be justified.
I would not have used a 243 at that distance on an elk, either.
Maybe I'm all wet on this one, but I am inclined to think not, mostly because of accumulated experience.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
350 Mag said:
I would rather hang a tag on the wall ....than take a risky shot....wound an animal.....not recover it.....and have a bad night's sleep....
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As would I. But "risky shot" means different things for different people.

This issue is very much like basketball. Taking a shot from the 3-point line may be risky for you, or unlikely that you will make the shot, but for someone like Michael Jordan it's a much different scenario. The difference is that he has put in hours and hours of practice, is very capable of making the shot, and knows when to shoot and when not to.
 
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