25-06, 260 or ?? for first deer rifle.
- Thread starter Joe Sixpack
- Start date
7mm-08, hands down. Low recoil, great bullet choices, works fine with a 22" barrel, typically light rifles. Kicks like a .243 deer load but the killing capability is way higher. Very overlooked but IMO the very best caliber for a first gun. Many never do use anything else.
The nice thing about the .243 and .260 is that you can get them in youth models. The Howa and Weatherby Vanguard are available as a youth package. They include a regular sized (length of pull) stock for when your child needs it.
I was also thinking that the .308 is a really good cartridge. You can load it down to .30-30 velocities, or use a 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.
The Ballistic Tip at 2800 fps with 37grains of RL7 would make a fine deer cartridge. It has a 6" point blank range of 271 yards. The drop at 300 yards is only 6.1" and it is still moving along at 2100fps, so it would open up very nicely. Not that it really matters to me, but the old yardstick of 1000 ft-lbs of energy is available out to 400 yards with this load.
The 150gr Accubond or Ballistic Tip can be pushed to 2500fps with about 40grs of IMR4895. It would have a 6" PBR of 248 yards and maintain that 1000ft-lbs out to 425 yards. It is still moving along at 1740 fps at that range, so expansion with a ballistic tip would not be a concern.
The .260 Remington will push a 120gr bullet to similar velocity as the 125gr .308 Win. and use a similar charge of powder. That means recoild will be pretty much identical. Ah yes, you say, but the .260's bullet has a much better bc and will shoot flatter. Well, if both start out at 2800fps (to maintain similarity in recoil), the .260 Rem's PBR will be 277 yards vs the .308's 271 yards. That's not a difference worth mentioning, imo.
Let's say you want to give moose and elk a try. Cook up some .308 Win loads using a 130 TTSX at around 2800 fps, again with a charge just north of 40 grs with a suitable powder. Your PBR will be 268 yards. Drop at 300 is only 6.4" and you have +2000 fps out past 325 yards. A youngster should probably be honing his skills at getting closer than that range anyways.
Let's look at recoil. We can use 7lbs as a scoped, slinged and full magazine of ammo weight.
.308 Win with 125gr Nosler BT - 11.2lbs
.308 Win with 150gr Nosler - 12.9lbs
.243 Win with 85gr TSX @ 3200 -9.09lbs
I like the .308 Winchester and I think it may be a good choice for your child.
I was also thinking that the .308 is a really good cartridge. You can load it down to .30-30 velocities, or use a 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.
The Ballistic Tip at 2800 fps with 37grains of RL7 would make a fine deer cartridge. It has a 6" point blank range of 271 yards. The drop at 300 yards is only 6.1" and it is still moving along at 2100fps, so it would open up very nicely. Not that it really matters to me, but the old yardstick of 1000 ft-lbs of energy is available out to 400 yards with this load.
The 150gr Accubond or Ballistic Tip can be pushed to 2500fps with about 40grs of IMR4895. It would have a 6" PBR of 248 yards and maintain that 1000ft-lbs out to 425 yards. It is still moving along at 1740 fps at that range, so expansion with a ballistic tip would not be a concern.
The .260 Remington will push a 120gr bullet to similar velocity as the 125gr .308 Win. and use a similar charge of powder. That means recoild will be pretty much identical. Ah yes, you say, but the .260's bullet has a much better bc and will shoot flatter. Well, if both start out at 2800fps (to maintain similarity in recoil), the .260 Rem's PBR will be 277 yards vs the .308's 271 yards. That's not a difference worth mentioning, imo.
Let's say you want to give moose and elk a try. Cook up some .308 Win loads using a 130 TTSX at around 2800 fps, again with a charge just north of 40 grs with a suitable powder. Your PBR will be 268 yards. Drop at 300 is only 6.4" and you have +2000 fps out past 325 yards. A youngster should probably be honing his skills at getting closer than that range anyways.
Let's look at recoil. We can use 7lbs as a scoped, slinged and full magazine of ammo weight.
.308 Win with 125gr Nosler BT - 11.2lbs
.308 Win with 150gr Nosler - 12.9lbs
.243 Win with 85gr TSX @ 3200 -9.09lbs
I like the .308 Winchester and I think it may be a good choice for your child.
I had a 7mm-08 in a M7 SS and with full power loads it had a bit of a bite. My rifle was the pre-limbsaver (or whatever pad they use now) model.
140gr @ 2800 fps with 45gr charge in a 7lb rifle = 14.8lbs of recoil, or 62% more recoil than the .243 load I listed in my previous post. You need to back off on the 7mm-08, just like the .308 Win, to reduce recoil. It is a good choice, but ammo is also not nearly as common as a .308W.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. Great info.
Right now I'm leaning towards the lower end, ie, the 243 or 260. I going to scrap the idea of getting him something now that he can use for moose later. To have something that's manageable/enjoyable now is worth it, I think. And if I get him a 243, he'll always have a coyote gun. Probably leaning toward the .260 though.
Plus it gives me another excuse to to buy another gun in 5 years. I'd rather him have 2 guns, a 243/260 for deer and a 300wm for moose than go with 1 270. 2 is better than 1.
Right now I'm leaning towards the lower end, ie, the 243 or 260. I going to scrap the idea of getting him something now that he can use for moose later. To have something that's manageable/enjoyable now is worth it, I think. And if I get him a 243, he'll always have a coyote gun. Probably leaning toward the .260 though.
Plus it gives me another excuse to to buy another gun in 5 years. I'd rather him have 2 guns, a 243/260 for deer and a 300wm for moose than go with 1 270. 2 is better than 1.
Ok...thanks for the replies guys, I have read and re-read them all...so a couple guys mentioned the 7mm-08....I was looking at some Tikka's on the Wholesale Sports website...they do come in a 7mm-08...the Tikkas do have a very soft recoil pad, bolt action, detachable mag, I'd think it would probably be a nice light gun for a youngster. My cousin has one in .300WM and it's a nice gun. Only issue I see with getting a full sized composite stock is LOP, depends how much growing he's going to do in the next while.
...1899, I have considered a .308 as well...not sure where we're going to go yet...we have been having fun debating the virtues of each caliber though...I told him I'd just do like my old man and hand him a 7mmRM. Mind you, we do have a led-sled type bench rest for target shooting/practice, and I don't ever recall feeling recoil when shooting at live game...maybe my old man had a point in going big from the start? I was maybe 110lbs soaking wet and handled the 7mag at that age, don't recall ever being sore. anyone else start with a bigger caliber rifle like that?
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quackquackbang
CGN Regular
- Location
- Newfoundland
7mm-08 enough said! light recoil and flat shooting!!
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the 2506 has recoil? ppppfffff my .257wby hardly kicks any more then my .22-250 I was watching the holes appear in the paper through the scope at the range so it cant be that bad.
I know where there is one hiding. NIB.
PM for info.
I have one for sale,700 mountain rifle DM 260.
The kid is eleven years old, to a kid that weighs maybe 100 pounds a 25-06 recoils. A 260 with 120 gr bullets and 42-43 grains of powder is very mild.
When I bought my son his first rifle I bought him a light 270, he could shoot it Ok , but recoil was an issue at the range. When he was small he couldn't handle a standard weight gun, if I was doing it again I would get a light rifle with a cartridge based on the 308 rather than the 30-06 case.
260 or 7-08, BTW the tikka are very nice, but the recoil pads can be hard. Get a prefit limbsaver pad and let the kid go to town.
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
EDIT- Beer+Posting=bad
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smokingunn
Member
In my opinion 7mm-08 is the way to go especially if you reload, you can always load it down a little, the bullet selection and performance for a 7mm is amazing. I love berger vld's. The 7mm bullets generally have a great ballistic coefficient, which helps them buck the wind alot better than the 25 caliber bullets, recoil is only slightly more than 243. With a rifle with a little faster twist barrel you could always use the heavier bullets for larger game. Just my 2 cents, check out 7mm bullets, you wont be disappointed.
My son learned with a .30-30 model 94. He can shoot any rifle he would want now and still prefers the .30-30! A sweet little light rifle requiring no stock modifications whatsoever. And now with the Hornady Levereverlution ammo, it's quite capable out to 200 yards or so.
tuffteddyb
Regular
the m77 youth is a awesome rifle,nice and short for smaller builds.my wife shoots one in 7/08 and she LOVES it.
but...if you do get them a 270,308,06 why not just shoot managed recoil shells from federal?
my nephew used them in my old 308 and he never had a problem,wife used them on her first deer and she said were really sweet to shoot.
personally i would buy the 260 or 7/08 over a 243 anyday,just because you can get heavier bullets for them and they will work on bigger game.
but...if you do get them a 270,308,06 why not just shoot managed recoil shells from federal?
my nephew used them in my old 308 and he never had a problem,wife used them on her first deer and she said were really sweet to shoot.
personally i would buy the 260 or 7/08 over a 243 anyday,just because you can get heavier bullets for them and they will work on bigger game.
All really good suggestions here, and mine would be very similar. Something based on the 308...243, 260, 7-08, 308, 338 fed, or 358. What I would spend more time on is finding the rifle that fits your son the best, and let the caliber/cartridge be what it may. You can make any of the mentioned cartridges kill what you are chasing, and you can make them all reduced recoil for when he starts shooting, so what does it ultimately matter what caliber/cartridge he shoots? Also, let HIM pick it out, that way he will feel more pride in the ownership of his new shootin' iron!
Good on you for getting your kids started out young!
Good on you for getting your kids started out young!
The deal with my eldest was he had to save his own money, I'll match it and he got turned loose on the ee. So his first rig turned out to be a custom 257roy. Not my first,second or third choice for a first deer gun but he loves that gun and shoots it real well.
My 9 year old is looking to buy this summer. He's leaning towards a Swede.
As mentioned above, pride of ownership is a great thing.
My 9 year old is looking to buy this summer. He's leaning towards a Swede.
As mentioned above, pride of ownership is a great thing.
