270 win or 7mm-08?

cody c said:
Ardent, after looking at my post, it probably does come off as a little harsh.

That isnt my intent, but I think I do have a point. If someone can explain how I am wrong, I will admit it and have gained a stronger perspective for it. But it is something that I think should be considered, and I enjoy hearing the members on the forums' perspectives on as well. If I seem something that doesnt add up I will generally point it out, and hope that someone else will correct me when Im wrong. I suppose thats how the wise find their wisdom.
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So, which do you recommend, the 7mm-08 or 270? If you don't think either is up to the task then what would be your choice and why!

If you think "proper" bullet placement is not required if you shoot a heavier/larger cal bullet you can look forward to losing some wounded animals! I don't care what you shoot a caribou or elk with, if you put the bullet through the lungs on a broadside shot "proper bullet placement" it can travel up to 100yds easily.
 
shortaction said:
So, which do you recommend, the 7mm-08 or 270? If you don't think either is up to the task then what would be your choice and why!

If you think "proper" bullet placement is not required if you shoot a heavier/larger cal bullet you can look forward to losing some wounded animals! I don't care what you shoot a caribou or elk with, if you put the bullet through the lungs on a broadside shot "proper bullet placement" it can travel up to 100yds easily.
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Well, I dont think I said bullet placement is not important, actually if you read my post you will see that I never said that. Perhaps I did not illustrate what I meant very well. I would rather smack an elk in the shuolder and lose some roast or steaks than have it run over a bank into the thick brush of a river valley. If a lung shot may shorten that distance covered in thick brush, I find that acceptable. Having said that, my intent is always to drop an animal as quickly and humanely as possible.

I think the claim of proper bullet placement is interesting, I see there always being a margin of error for any shooter, though for some the margin is probably much smaller. I think it is more like acceptable risk. If you have an animal at quite a distance, at the end of a field with an exit to the thick brush of a water valley, are you comfortable with taking the shot despite the risks although small of loosing the animal. Personally I would prefer a larger caliber, not so much as way to neglect proper shot placement, but rather in conjunction with shot placement. To me it narrows the chances marginally of losing game, and that is enough reason to use a larger caliber than the 7mm-08 or 270.

Not that I have anything against the two calibers. Personally I favour the 270 not would rather take out a first time shooter to the range with the 7mm-.08
as far as a rifle to shoot specifically elk or caribou with, I would rather something with a little more takedown. If you are comfortable shooting elk or caribou with a 7mm-.08, well thats perfectly fine and I have no arguement with it. However I would suggest either of the two calibers this thread is about for a new hunter, unless they were specifically looking to hunt elk, caribou, bear, in which case I would say take it up to a 30-06 or larger.

If you were in the military as a sniper for many years than Im sure none of this applies to you. I would expect you to be fine shooting smaller diameter projectiles at long distances. But this opinion is more directed at newer or average shooter.
 
The new or average shooter should get good with some thing they are comfortable with first and foremost.

You give a new shooter a so called "adequate" chambering , they may well be making some very bad misses and some very bad habbits.

Relying on the rifle vs your skill and confidence is a dangerous way of thinking in my opinion.

Both of these choices in a confident hunters hands will work on anything they will be hunting in this country.

Gotta walk before you can run.

270 vs 7mm-08, It don't matter. Buy what fits you well then pick the chambering.Proper bullet selection trumps velocity and energy.
 
A little more wisdom from experience. I have seen many a shoulder shot NOT stop an animal. They can go three footed quite some distance! Heartélung , head or a good middle of the neck shot will give you a good kill!

Here is a 1/2 inch miss in width for the trophy books of SCI!
IMG_0127.jpg


It was a LUCKY heart lung shot as it was getting dark I did not know where the heart was. The Gnu did 30 feet before it dropped. 165Gr Hornady Bt in 30-06. I could of dropped it with my 7-08 and 139BTSP Hornady if used. My 375HH would of done the same thing at the same distance with the SAME results! The bigger calibers do get you a larger margin of error but I prefer accuracy over brute force! Mind you, you should see what a 375 HH does to a BIG black bear...........4 inch hole when hit the breast bone near the neck! The bear flipped and died.

I shot a nice 8 point buck at 125 measured yards with the 7-08. My 700 BDL had a Leupold 8.5x20 x50 Target scope. I actualy could focus between the ribs for the shot. The deer flipped on his back and exhaled once before expiring. The bullet went between the ribs and luckly me, exited between the ribs collapsing both lungs. It knicked the far side ribs due to bullet expansion. "It is better to lucky than good and unlucky!"

As a vesatile caliber, there are not many! 243, 6.5, 7 Mauser, JDJ Hand cannons in 6.5 JDJ, 3765JDJ or 45-70 are a few other than the 7-08. The 7-08 was optimised by Remington to use 140 gr bullets. The magazines do not take heavier bullets like the 162 if not seated deaply! But by hand loading, there are so many more applications for this caliber. Ken Water's Pet loads is a good start for the serious handloader and hunter!

Regards,
Henry:cool:

BTW, this year, I will use a M14 based counter=sniper based Sage stocked 308 to bag Bamby. The one that has the most toys, wins!
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
The new or average shooter should get good with some thing they are comfortable with first and foremost.

You give a new shooter a so called "adequate" chambering , they may well be making some very bad misses and some very bad habbits.

Relying on the rifle vs your skill and confidence is a dangerous way of thinking in my opinion.

Both of these choices in a confident hunters hands will work on anything they will be hunting in this country.

Gotta walk before you can run.

270 vs 7mm-08, It don't matter. Buy what fits you well then pick the chambering.Proper bullet selection trumps velocity and energy.
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I think we are sort of on the same page so I will quote a few things you said:

"Relying on the rifle vs your skill and confidence is a dangerous way of thinking in my opinion."

exactly, a higher caliber rifle shouldn't be used in place of shot placement, but to enhance it. If you feel 80 or 90% sure you will hit within 3" of where you want, do you not take the shot, take the shot or aim for the shoulder instead of the neck?? I would like to hear where people think they are in terms of "margin of shot placement" There also is some benefit to having a larger rifle in grizz/bear country.

"Both of these choices in a confident hunters hands will work on anything they will be hunting in this country."

Yes, confident hunters, how about new hunters or cautious hunters. why would I assume anyone on the internet is a competent hunter and accurate in shooting game at 400 yards or 700 paces after running across a field and shooting in the wind?? Absolutely for confident/competent hunters, sure.

For the non competent hunter, I would prefer they shot at an animal with a .338 in the shoulder than a .270 for the neck.

"Gotta walk before you can run."

what is the "walking" rifle and what is the "running rifle" ??

I guess Im saying I support the idea of brand new shooters staring with smaller calibers until they aren't scared of recoil, but maybe the bigger calibers take up a bit of the slack, in terms of knocking down animals until they have a real tight group and have the ability for "correct placement"

Which is indirectly a complement to all the hunters using smaller rifles and a bit of a burn on us using the popular magnums.
 
Well what I am saying about the walk before run scenario is learn to be confident in yourself and abilities above all else.Once you know you have developed your skill and confidence the by all means go ahead and purchase your giant cannon that WSS says you need to field process your sausage with.

I just have to respectfully disagree with letting the size of the cartridge take up the slack. If in your mind you take the shot because you aren't 100% sure you will make it but feel the size of projectile will help out, then the trigger shouldn't be pulled. Is there misses and extenuating circumstances when hunting? Of course there is, but lets eliminate as many variables as possible along the way.

Anyways , we are kinda drifting off the subject here.

Personally I like the 7mm-08, it just sounds fancier! :D. Have both, both work the same on critters. You can get slightly more compact rifles in 7mm-08 if carry size is an issue. Other than that go hard on either one that fits you well.

Oh, and I have never used a popular magnum on game.;)
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Well what I am saying about the walk before run scenario is learn to be confident in yourself and abilities above all else.Once you know you have developed your skill and confidence the by all means go ahead and purchase your giant cannon that WSS says you need to field process your sausage with.

I just have to respectfully disagree with letting the size of the cartridge take up the slack. If in your mind you take the shot because you aren't 100% sure you will make it but feel the size of projectile will help out, then the trigger shouldn't be pulled. Is there misses and extenuating circumstances when hunting? Of course there is, but lets eliminate as many variables as possible along the way.

Anyways , we are kinda drifting off the subject here.

Personally I like the 7mm-08, it just sounds fancier! :D. Have both, both work the same on critters. You can get slightly more compact rifles in 7mm-08 if carry size is an issue. Other than that go hard on either one that fits you well.

Oh, and I have never used a popular magnum on game.;)
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I guess i can agree with you here, though I do still have a bit of a different perspective, I cant really say you are wrong in your position either.
And ya, the 7mm-.08 does sound fancier.

I think I have pulled this off topic and apologize to the OP.

Maybe he will pull it back on track with a picture of his new rifle.
:cheers:

BTW, Hnachaj, great picture! I am envious, that must of been some adventure! My younger brother has started his "africa fund" and is planning on going there in 2014.
 
Pictures would be good, maybe I should give an example of what a 7mm-08 should look like.;)



That is my do everything 7mm-08, not a light weight but will do until I am an old man and can't carry it!!
 
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I'm partial to either/or. They're both great rounds. If your mind is set up on a Tikka T3, I would go with the .270 simply because a 7mm-08 won't be any shorter or lighter due ot the long-action-only design, so those advantages are lost. A .270 will do anything shy of the big bears.
 
Is there any difference in noise between a 7mm-08 and a .308 with the same barrel length? How do the 270 and 30-06 fit in here in terms of noise.
 
Lots of sound advice. Just looking at numbers alone from the Hornady H.I.T.S. calculator for 200 yards:

270 Win - 140 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 939 - 2569 fps & 2051 ft/lb

7mm-08 - 139 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 845 - 2470 fps & 1883 ft/lb

Hornady considers a H.I.T.S. number of 501 to 900 as suitable for deer, black bear and caribou. And a H.I.T.S. number of 901 to 1500 as suitable for elk, and moose. The 270 Win will hit a little harder but not that significantly more than the 7mm-08. Either is more than enough for deer hunting.
 
There is about as much BS in the "HITS" numbers as a daytime soap opera.

Let the real world users and hunters show what is what here.

True that both are very close in terms of numbers, I think you will find users of these calibers capable of taking moose and elk at those distances without issue.


Doglock said:
Lots of sound advice. Just looking at numbers alone from the Hornady H.I.T.S. calculator for 200 yards:

270 Win - 140 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 939 - 2569 fps & 2051 ft/lb

7mm-08 - 139 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 845 - 2470 fps & 1883 ft/lb

Hornady considers a H.I.T.S. number of 501 to 900 as suitable for deer, black bear and caribou. And a H.I.T.S. number of 901 to 1500 as suitable for elk, and moose. The 270 Win will hit a little harder but not that significantly more than the 7mm-08. Either is more than enough for deer hunting.
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Doglock said:
Lots of sound advice. Just looking at numbers alone from the Hornady H.I.T.S. calculator for 200 yards:

270 Win - 140 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 939 - 2569 fps & 2051 ft/lb

7mm-08 - 139 gr SST Interlock - H.I.T.S. = 845 - 2470 fps & 1883 ft/lb

Hornady considers a H.I.T.S. number of 501 to 900 as suitable for deer, black bear and caribou. And a H.I.T.S. number of 901 to 1500 as suitable for elk, and moose. The 270 Win will hit a little harder but not that significantly more than the 7mm-08. Either is more than enough for deer hunting.
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This is not to be critical of either you or your post, but this is the kind of typical hype that has been used to sell so many, slightly different, calibre designs, in the last 70 or so years.
When the commercial version of the 30-06 cartridge necked down to 7mm came out, the arguments were incessant. Dog-eared ballistic charts would be argued over, wherever two or more shooters/hunters got together.
A hep salesman could easily sell a 280, 284, or whatever they were called, to a hunter with a perfectly good 270, based on ballistic charts.
In reality, of course, one could do a lifetime of hunting with either, using suitable bullets, and not be able to tell which was "best," or even discern any difference between the two.
 
H.I.T.S. is nothing more than Bullet Weight x Sectional Density x Impact Velocity / 100.

It can provide an indication as to how a particular caliber will perform relative to others, but does not provide any indication as to how a particular bullet will perform. Just like everything else, take it with a grain of salt.

And I agree with you Kelly, H.I.T.S is not a substitute for experience in the field.
 
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