280AI or 30-06

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Being numbered amongst the 99.9999%, I must be missing something, although I'm just not sure what it might be. Naturally my shooting consists of load evaluation and confirmation of a load's zero, but I strive to achieve and maintain a minimum level of competence in practical marksmanship. I define practical marksmanship as shooting under time constraints, at targets at unknown ranges, which lack a specific aiming point, that maybe stationary or moving, from supported and non-supported positions, and from both the strong and support side. Of course there's more to it than this as we must also contend with and allow for variations in temperature, wind, and target angle in addition to range.

Ambidextrous shooting certainly paid off in Africa when I rugged my warthog which was running flat out, quartering away to the right, with a shot off my left shoulder. I may never need to use that skill again, but it paid off that day, and is one of the most memorable game shots I've ever made. Somewhere along the way, I discovered its easier to react to a situation if you've already programmed yourself to react a certain way. In this case I knew that if I got a shot to the right, I would shoot from my left side rather than attempting to turn towards it.

Another drill which has paid off for me is cycling the action at the shoulder as quickly as possible without consideration of the effect of the bullet on the target. Thus one is ready for a followup without the delay of first realizing that the animal wasn't down, followed by cycling the action (often at waist level) followed by remounting the rifle, finding the cheek weld, and finally making the shot, if there is still a target to shoot at. One of my drills is to stand behind a vehicle that pulls a plastic oil pail on a line, and engage the pail as it bounces and rolls towards me. I've discovered that a rapidly approaching target, moving in an irregular, unpredictable manner, is far more difficult that a running broadside target at medium range.

When I learned that I would use a double rifle on my safari, I borrowed a side-by-side open choke shotgun and shot up a few hundred slugs in perpetration. As it turned out that practice proved insufficient as I never acquired a comfort level with the double rifle, even though I killed my buffalo with it. One problem was the loads were hot enough to stick the action, requiring the shooter to bump the hinge over his knee to open it. I discovered that extractors suck, (that shotgun had extractors too). The rear express sight was narrow and deep where it should have been wide and shallow, and I found it was taking me much longer to make a shot than it should have; I wouldn't trade that $40K English double for my $5K custom Brno.

What does this have to do with the .280 AI vs .30/06 debate? Not a damn thing, except that the rifleman who owns a .280 AI is likely, although not necessarily an enthusiast, and the enthusiast will tend to shoot and hunt more frequently than the typical annual deer hunter. Now despite being numbered amongst the 99.9999%, I do consider myself an enthusiast. I would think those who bother to spend much time on a firearms forum are also enthusiasts. The real difference between us isn't the desire to shoot or hunt, the difference is the opportunity we have to feed our addictions. My opportunities are pretty good, in that I live in a place that is very gun tolerant, and my house is 250 yards from Hudson Bay's high tide mark. Hudson Bay by the way is the world's largest rifle range when its ice covered. Some of us have more opportunities than others who face financial and/or geographic restrictions to their addiction, and those of us who have the opportunities should not look down on those who can only shoot 500 rounds a year.

Boomer, I don't know what to say except that that I'm giving you a standing ovation. That is such a grand explanation how a hunter betters himself as a hunter. I was impressed how you practiced with a double shotgun/slugs to familiarized yourself with a double rifle. I as well owned a bouble rifle, Blaser S2, that only had extractors and wish that it had ejectors.
I can't say that I'm addicted to hunting/shooting/wildcats/domesticated wildcats, however I view it as a tradition, heritage and custom. I balanced my life with family first, work and then leisure time.
Well, I guess that makes 2 out of a possible 3 who I know practices their shooting skills other than on a bench or over the hood of a pick-up truck.
 
This is just simply an opinion and quite frankly untrue. Here is a blurb from a gentleman that owns some very high end custom rifles. But very few guns altogether and has taken literally hundreds of head of game throughout the world. And he is a gun enthusiast. This was yesterday by the way.

"I have concluded that fewer is more when it comes to rifles. This is particularly true if one is a hunter. Far too many "hunt" for the next rifle rather than go into the field. I could easily live with a pair of 270's, a Big 7, and one "bigger" gun . As much as I like the idea of a Big 7, I could probably get along without one."

I could conclude that some should get rid of about 20 rifles in the safe, by a good 270/30-06 and shoot it more.

I'm not sure what you are referring to as untrue; that an enthusiast might spend the time or money on a custom rifle, or that I'm an enthusiast. I probably shoot more rounds of .30/06 through my slightly modified ZG-47 per year than anything else and I don't own either version of a .280, as I already have a 7X57, I did just buy my son a .270 though. But I like to think I'm an enthusiast . . . the slogan on the boxes of Lapua brass suggests I am anyway, but I can't spell aficionado without looking it up. ;)
 
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So I'm dumb because I hunt with an '06? Or don't practice
because my caliber isn't "rare" or exotic? Way to advance
the hunting sport folks. Now I know a person I don't
need to ever bother meeting.

You are not dumb. Track is just a far superior hunter compared to any other hunter on Gunnutz and possibly the world. Just ask him. Its obvious because he uses "high end firearms" in "exotic calibres" ;)
 
So I'm dumb because I hunt with an '06? Or don't practice
because my caliber isn't "rare" or exotic? Way to advance
the hunting sport folks. Now I know a person I don't
need to ever bother meeting.

I'm not sure what the choice of cartridge has to do with the amount of practice you get, but practice doesn't necessarily mean shooting. Things like natural point of aim, breathing, trigger control, sight alignment, follow through, cycling the action rapidly while in position, and shooting positions can all be practiced off range, while in the comfort of your living room. This practice is best done without the expenditure of a single round of ammunition, which is hard on the flat screen, but more importantly teaches you more than live fire can because mistakes in these areas are masked by recoil. Range estimation can be worked on every time you leave the house. Target angle can be judged each time you walk down the street. If that dog was a wolf, where would I aim? What part of the body would the bullet ultimately penetrate with that hold on that angle? Is that the best target angle I can get? One doesn't need to be a master sniper to make a kill in any typical hunting scenario, the range is typically short, and the time is usually adequate. But practicing the skills necessary to become a talented marksman certainly helps with the self confidence, and often the difference between a hit and a miss is the confidence the shooter has in himself. By the way, if you've chosen a .30/06 hunting rifle, you've made an excellent choice.
 
How did we get here again? We where discussing the minutae of two ridiculously similar performers, and their barely distiguishable differences, and suddenly we are attacking the traditions and hunting ability of the "99%" for what? Only one person started this and only one person posted oratory and pictures to prove their "elevated" status. That one persons qualifications are sketchy to begin with. So ignore the one person and their arrogance and move on. This could still be a worth while discussion without the "1%". Funny how the 1% always seems to distract from the original subject to start chest thumping.
 
How did we get here again? We where discussing the minutae of two ridiculously similar performers, and their barely distiguishable differences, and suddenly we are attacking the traditions and hunting ability of the "99%" for what? Only one person started this and only one person posted oratory and pictures to prove their "elevated" status. That one persons qualifications are sketchy to begin with. So ignore the one person and their arrogance and move on. This could still be a worth while discussion without the "1%". Funny how the 1% always seems to distract from the original subject to start chest thumping.

It is hard to ignore one of such arrogant nature. One keeps turning up everywhere like a fly on sh!t. :D
 
Wow. 500 rounds of centrefire a year is alot now? I usually shoot that much...sometimes more, some years it has been a bit less. Alot of those rounds go downrange offhand to boot. I never realized I was special for it. I know many shooters/hunters that match the volume that I do, and a handful that shoot multiples of what I do....give it a rest track....

Annnnnd I have to step in on the whole photo-shopping game photos thing. To start with, I don't know chuck from a hole in the ground, so I have no motivation to save face for him....but I just want to get facts straight. If I recall a couple years ago he posted a pic of a nice elk on AO....right in the message he typed out it was mentioned that the picture had a broken tine photo-shopped in to show what the bull would have looked like in all his glory....there was also a picture without the photo-shopped tine posted on the thread. That is all I can muster up in my memory about chuck and photo-shopping. If there is any other compelling evidence please do post it.
 
My 30.06 shooting Barnes Vor-tx ammo, 168 grain TTSX, will kill anything, the penetration is incredible, and it retains almost 100% of it's weight. If I were
going after grizzly I'd move up to 180 grain, but I don't hunt them so the 168 gr
works beautifully. I use a .270 for deer with 140 grain Accubonds, because I have
it, but if I didn't I'd go with the one 30.06 cartridge for deer as well.
 
Your past and present coy and fraudulent inuendo's are maybe catching up with you Chuck, and they have been unbecoming of yourself.
As for the "photoshop", well I'll let the readers decide. Strange that we haven't met at the Oldman River Gun Club being that I was there at least a dozen times last year (2011 and the previous 4 years) Maybe that it was a Godsent that we didn't meet. In the meantime enjoy a pure true bonified 192 net Boone and Crockett Mulie..................no photoshop there.;)
HPIM0455.jpg


Man...why not go back and read all your posts and look how foolish you are acting. If you are truly a firearms enthusiast and die hard hunter you sure bring shame to the sport.
 
Can't help but be amused by this thread. Grown men bickering and arguing like little kids, and the one kid that believes to be right still won't budge and the others still keep at it trying to convince him to take a chill pill and admit to some seriously dumb statements. (i.e99.99999%)

Also find it insulting as an avid hunter my whole life to have people claim that you have to shoot upside down, through your ass and hit a MOA target at 300 yards, if not you are not a hunter.

And that the rifle is the most important part of the hunt. Come here to Baffin Island with your rifles, hand loads and shoot out of your ass, upside down skills and I bet you might experience some problems.

There are far more important skills to hunting than mastering every aspect of firearms.

First I would say that survival and handling yourself on the land is the most important. Safe handling of guns is included here.

Second is knowledge of the game, and the land they live in.

Then when you find the game you need to put it down in a good and ethical manner that lives up to your standards as a hunter. If the game is too far away for a safe shot, develop the skill to get closer and then pull the trigger.

---end rant----
 
Can't help but be amused by this thread. Grown men bickering and arguing like little kids, and the one kid that believes to be right still won't budge and the others still keep at it trying to convince him to take a chill pill and admit to some seriously dumb statements. (i.e99.99999%)

Also find it insulting as an avid hunter my whole life to have people claim that you have to shoot upside down, through your ass and hit a MOA target at 300 yards, if not you are not a hunter.

And that the rifle is the most important part of the hunt. Come here to Baffin Island with your rifles, hand loads and shoot out of your ass, upside down skills and I bet you might experience some problems.

There are far more important skills to hunting than mastering every aspect of firearms.

First I would say that survival and handling yourself on the land is the most important. Safe handling of guns is included here.

Second is knowledge of the game, and the land they live in.

Then when you find the game you need to put it down in a good and ethical manner that lives up to your standards as a hunter. If the game is too far away for a safe shot, develop the skill to get closer and then pull the trigger.

---end rant----

That's the cool part about hunting isn't it. You can do it wrong and have meat in the freezer, and next time get it all right but not succeed.

A couple of weeks ago I had a perfect opportunity on a beautiful wolf that I blew in a magnificent fashion. The set up was perfect, no wind, the sky was overcast and the light subdued with no glare. The wolf was standing broadside watching me from the sea ice just in front of some pressure ice. I was shooting my '06 loaded with 180 gr Power Points over a jigger full of H-100V. I had to shoot quick though because wolfie knew something was up and I could see he wouldn't stand around long enough for me to laze the range. Instinctively I knew the range was 300 yards, and in my mind I was already admiring his hide on my wall (that's always a bad sign). I put the top of the front sight just above the line of his back and pressed the trigger. At the shot he bolted to my left as I flicked the bolt, I swung ahead of him and holding the same elevation, pressed the trigger again. This time he swapped ends and bolted to my right, the bolt slammed home once more, and I got my last shot at him just as he disappeared into the rough ice. I walked out to his tracks and retraced his steps but found no blood or hair, so each shot was a clean miss which I thought strange. My position was solid, cheek weld was good, the front sight I remember being crisp and sharp, my trigger control was good, the shot broke on my natural respiratory pause, and I wasn't tense or excited. I went back to my firing position and lazed a rock not far from his original position, 235 yards.

Note to self, if you aim at air, you'll hit air. I've missed far more game by shooting over it than I ever have by shooting too low, you'd think I might figure that out someday, but this is why its important to remember your failures as well as your successes, you'll probably learn more from your failures. Now the fellow who knows a lot about hunting, but maybe a bit less about shooting, might not have considered the need for hold over, and under the similar circumstances he'd have his wolf.
 
Wow - what happened? This was supposed to be a discussion of 280AI vs 30-06, and became a childish ####-measuring contest. No-one cares about your "trophy" animals. How you responded says more about you than any pics could. Of course you don't care what others think - inflated egos don't.
 
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