3 Gun Tips and Tricks

I've been slouching on shooting my AR. I felt I was a bit slow practicing doubles today. Our matches have rifle targets as IPSC targets within ~18 yards. Any tips for cranking off fast and accurate second shots? Am I expecting to have sufficient recoil control to maintain a good sight picture throughout both trigger pulls, or is it more about popping off the second shot before having the sight picture and have faith in your recoil management?
 
One sight picture and pull the trigger as fast as you can twice.

If you start close in to a target and step back with subsequent double taps you can figure out how far away from the target you can be before you have to switch to controlled pairs.

Your skill and equipment with determine how far you can double tap from.
 
Stevo said:
One sight picture and pull the trigger as fast as you can twice.

If you start close in to a target and step back with subsequent double taps you can figure out how far away from the target you can be before you have to switch to controlled pairs.

Your skill and equipment with determine how far you can double tap from.
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Ahhh.... okay so I have just been trying to do "controlled pairs" at ~15-18 yards. Controlled pairs is a new term for me. This all sounds good and makes sense...thanks friend. What distance do you figure a very good shooter with a soft shooting gun would should be able to double tap from?
 
grimreefer said:
Ahhh.... okay so I have just been trying to do "controlled pairs" at ~15-18 yards. Controlled pairs is a new term for me. This all sounds good and makes sense...thanks friend. What distance do you figure a very good shooter with a soft shooting gun would should be able to double tap from?
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You can double tap at any distance, it depends what result you want from it. ;)

I can double tap both into the 0 on an IDPA target 99% of the time out to 16-18m if I do my part. If I'm okay with the second shot going into the -1, I'm good to 25m or more. I tend to switch to controlled pairs past the 18ish meter mark, I don't like dropping the points.

Better shooters with better equipment can get a better result, of course.

Edit: FWIW, difference in split times for me between double taps and controlled pairs is about 0.2 seconds. eg: from 0.18 for a double tap to 0.38 for a controlled pair.
 
Stevo said:
You can double tap at any distance, it depends what result you want from it. ;)

I can double tap both into the 0 on an IDPA target 99% of the time out to 16-18m if I do my part. If I'm okay with the second shot going into the -1, I'm good to 25m or more. I tend to switch to controlled pairs past the 18ish meter mark, I don't like dropping the points.

Better shooters with better equipment can get a better result, of course.
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What is your point of aim for a double tap on an IDPA target at 16m?
 
No matter how dirty and dusty your gear gets on day 1 of a two day match, as long as everything is working, resist the urge to strip and clean your guns until after the match...You will thank me.
 
My biggest thing was insufficient stage visualization. This cost me a few stages. Pistol matches got me used to having plenty of time for dry runs, but 3 gun matches take more time making guns safe and resetting the stage between shooters. In the 3 gun matches I've shot this year, there has been little to no time for dry runs. I think this could be replaced by visualizing the run multiple times.
 
Innavedaw said:
No matter how dirty and dusty your gear gets on day 1 of a two day match, as long as everything is working, resist the urge to strip and clean your guns until after the match...You will thank me.
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Why? Cleaning your guns has zero effect on down range performance, in fact a clean gun is a more reliable gun. The only gun that would be of any(like almost zero) concern is the rifle. your pistol and shotgun are not precision tools.
 
Kidd X said:
Why? Cleaning your guns has zero effect on down range performance, in fact a clean gun is a more reliable gun. The only gun that would be of any(like almost zero) concern is the rifle. your pistol and shotgun are not precision tools.
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Disassembly presents the risk of mistakes. Just shot a match with a guy that took his semi shotgun apart to clean it beforehand. The magazine tube follower got pinched in the tube somehow, and he had no spring tension. Turned his semi into a very unreliable gravity fed single shot. This wouldn't have been a problem had he known that the shotgun ran properly before the shoot, and hadn't ####ed with it since.
 
I shot a 3Gun this summer in the beginning of the BC forest fires at Lone Butte. It was so dusty and sandy, you can hear the grating noise when you cycle the actions of the guns. I didn't clean them ( too tired and hot!) but just oiled them. Everything worked fine the next day. I would assume most modern guns can take a day of dust and still function.
 
A clean gun is not always a reliable gun.

If I clean a gun before a match, I have to put rounds through it to make sure it works as it should.
I'd rather figure out I over lubed or reinstalled something incorrectly in practice vs a match I just spent who knows how much money on and messing up my results.

Pistols/shotguns, just because people can't be precise with them, doesn't mean they are not precision tools.
You need to shoot more technical matches and less hose fests.
 
Practice shooting your rifle from different positions (standing, kneeling, prone) and from different kinds of barricades. Inexperience in this department hurt me badly at the last match.
 
Scotty454 said:
Disassembly presents the risk of mistakes. Just shot a match with a guy that took his semi shotgun apart to clean it beforehand. The magazine tube follower got pinched in the tube somehow, and he had no spring tension. Turned his semi into a very unreliable gravity fed single shot. This wouldn't have been a problem had he known that the shotgun ran properly before the shoot, and hadn't ####ed with it since.
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Mistakes are user related not gear related. Assuming everyone is equally competent is just as ignorant as assuming everyone is incompetent and should avoid cleaning their gear between days/events. The pure act of cleaning your firearm/gear does not negatively effect its performance.

Still alive said:
I shot a 3Gun this summer in the beginning of the BC forest fires at Lone Butte. It was so dusty and sandy, you can hear the grating noise when you cycle the actions of the guns. I didn't clean them ( too tired and hot!) but just oiled them. Everything worked fine the next day. I would assume most modern guns can take a day of dust and still function.
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I wouldn't assume most modern guns can take a day of dust. I see plenty of clean unfired guns sh*t the bed at matches on the first stage.

pauls said:
A clean gun is not always a reliable gun.

If I clean a gun before a match, I have to put rounds through it to make sure it works as it should.
I'd rather figure out I over lubed or reinstalled something incorrectly in practice vs a match I just spent who knows how much money on and messing up my results.

Pistols/shotguns, just because people can't be precise with them, doesn't mean they are not precision tools.
You need to shoot more technical matches and less hose fests.
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Explain how cleaning your gun has somehow rendered it inoperable or rather how your confidence in the setup has been diminished? If the gun doesn't work it is because you broke something or you reassembled it incorrectly which is a USER error. The risk of user error is present in every action.

I should be more specific when I say your shotgun and pistol are not precision tools. Compared to your rifle your shotgun and pistol are not precision tools nor were they ever designed to be precision tools. However, precise(within reason) shots are capable with both if the conditions are right.

I have shot many a matches and also made many a long range precision shots with my pistol, don't assume you know what kind of shooting I do nor my skill set. Nowhere did I say anything about spraying shots.
 
Kidd X said:
Why? Cleaning your guns has zero effect on down range performance, in fact a clean gun is a more reliable gun. The only gun that would be of any(like almost zero) concern is the rifle. your pistol and shotgun are not precision tools.
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I meant this as advise for us mortals...clearly none of my posts are relevant to yourself...Kindly disregard.
 
Kidd X said:
I wouldn't assume most modern guns can take a day of dust. I see plenty of clean unfired guns sh*t the bed at matches on the first stage.
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Kidd X said:
Explain how cleaning your gun has somehow rendered it inoperable or rather how your confidence in the setup has been diminished?.
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You answered your own question

As for the rest of it, take a deep breath and relax. No one cares.
 
Alright! Some things I have learned this 3gun season.

- pack a flashlight or headband light in case they send you into a no light kill house. They will supply you with a crappy light but you can do better than that foot long 3 pound antique that has the illuminating power of exactly one candle.
Make sure to turn on a headband style lamp BEFORE you start the stage.

- DO NOT load Beowulf or Lar mags to maximum capacity. Down load by atleast one round to ensure they can be seated on a closed bolt. What also happens is there is so much pressure in a filled up mag that the bolt may not have enough force to load the next round.

- holster retention. Magazines as well. Stage Designers will put you in all kinds of screwy positions. Dropping a pistol gets you DQ'd. Lost mags can cost you a stage.

- know the point value of your targets. I have watched shooters spend 15, 20 seconds trying to drop a 100 yard plate that is only worth 5 points. Engage a few times, try your best but know when to cut your losses and move on.

- know how to operate all 3 guns with the opposite hand. Don't have to be proficient but at least be familiar.

- I used to laugh at those who hauled their gear around in a cart / modified baby stroller. But the more matches I go to, the more I realize their wisdom. There's lots of stuff and it gets heavy.

- the gun I have seen malfunction the most is the shotgun. Semis, pumps, top of the line or budget brand. All I know is pump actions like the rough treatment when they act up and 1oz loads will not reliably cycle a semi all day at a match.
 
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Long said:
1. Make sure your holster will retain your pistol while running, jumping, crawling, etc. I recommend a kydex one with some form of retention other than just friction.
2. Make sure all your gear is secure and won't fall off. It's tough when you get to the last bank of targets and need another magazine and you realize that they all fell out while crawling through a culvert or low wire obstacle or just jumping down from a roof barricade.
3. Pattern your shotgun with your chosen loads and chokes at distances so you know when you need to switch up chokes or go to heavier shot if able to.
4. Zero your rifle and understand your holdovers for distances both long range and short range. Impacts of height over bore on POA POI is good to understand.
5. Understand what canting your rifle 90 degrees either way does to your zero at multiple distances. I reccommend 25, 50 and 100m.
6. When shooting through a barricade port with your pistol, don't stick your pistol through the port, if you do muzzle flip may cause you to smack your front sight into the top of the port and smash your fiber optic if thats what your running.
7. When shooting around a barricade from the kneeling, keep your outside knee up, use your support hand to lock the forend of you rifle to the barricade and plant your firing hand elbow on your outside knee. Will make a much more stable platform.
8. Work to understand what you need in terms of slight alignment for accuaracy versus speed. By that I mean you need to know what kind of slight alignment and sight picture you can use to hit an full size steel IDPA target at 25m vice a 6" plate at 50m. If your looking to shoot at speed they are not the same.
9.Know how to rectify stoppages with all three guns. Nothing eats time like a double feed and not knowing the steps to clear it fast.
10. When shooting a Texas Star/Whirly Gig etc. start at the top and work your way down from side to side, if your good you will be shooting almost static targets. Starting at the bottom is your way to a very rapidly spinning target that is hard to shoot.
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Some of the best advice I've seen, thanks.
 
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