3 Guns "rules"
- Thread starter DT741
- Start date
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Our club (in Ontario) has a very active 3gun program and we require some sort of holster training to participate. This may take the form of a bb, cdp course, or similar. It may also include those who use a holster as part of their job (Leo, mil, etc.).
Perhaps we might petition the government to eliminate the law that firearms owners be tested and licensed since this basic level of safety competence is common sense. (I'm being sarcastic here.)
The firearms community is bigger than those of us that shoot competitively. In many places there are many range members that are opposed to the style of shooting that we do. If we can acknowledge their discomfort by at least reassuring them that we are trying to protect their continued access to to their own pursuits without having their ranges shut down because of accidental, negligent, unintentional, non-purposeful, un-aimed, un-focused, "oops I didn't mean to do that", discharges of firearms, I am inclined to support that.
I am doing what I can to support competitive shooting in my community and at my home range. One of the things that I want the novice competitive shooter to know is that we are an inclusive and welcoming group. But because safety is part of this passion, there should be an introductory level of standardized competency based training and testing that we should consider.
This testing doesn't need to be BB but something should be considered.
The firearms community is bigger than those of us that shoot competitively. In many places there are many range members that are opposed to the style of shooting that we do. If we can acknowledge their discomfort by at least reassuring them that we are trying to protect their continued access to to their own pursuits without having their ranges shut down because of accidental, negligent, unintentional, non-purposeful, un-aimed, un-focused, "oops I didn't mean to do that", discharges of firearms, I am inclined to support that.
I am doing what I can to support competitive shooting in my community and at my home range. One of the things that I want the novice competitive shooter to know is that we are an inclusive and welcoming group. But because safety is part of this passion, there should be an introductory level of standardized competency based training and testing that we should consider.
This testing doesn't need to be BB but something should be considered.
100% agree. I can watch some general membership really do some stuipid things even after months of probation and supervised sign off's.
I may be heavily into ipsc, but the last thing i would accept is a non-holster trained shooter paying to shoot the match.
Great example was having a new shooter on his first match using a race holster.
the course required a mid-range start with targets behind/infront.
So this shooter at the start signal proceeds to run uprange (while holstered in the race holster) and guess what happened to his loaded/safe firearm?
Something like this should be common sense. Albeit it is not so common.
Alot of the proper training is subjective to the instructor and their own views.
To me, if the gun is not in your hands it is not under your control.
I would say that BB may not apply to every league. But there is a reason that BB is accepted everywhere. It's a much larger step towards proper and full training then much else. (You are correct mr.flamer, it is not a full training on the aspects of a holster)
Safety first, thats a given.
Previously we had a "black gun day" which looks like a CQB/3guns clinic some of you know. That was enough. Now the BB is being forced on us, even if we did 3guns prior to this ridiculous ruling.
I, and other members are fighting the black badge requirement. Keep it for IPSC like its intended and as long as someone is safe on the line, safe handling should be the requirement. Loving the fact that hurdles now come from inside our community
Previously we had a "black gun day" which looks like a CQB/3guns clinic some of you know. That was enough. Now the BB is being forced on us, even if we did 3guns prior to this ridiculous ruling.
I, and other members are fighting the black badge requirement. Keep it for IPSC like its intended and as long as someone is safe on the line, safe handling should be the requirement. Loving the fact that hurdles now come from inside our community
If you can't kill the requirement for training would it be possible to propose a club holster course instead of BB. A first time shooters course that could be run an hour before a match that covers keeping your finger off the trigger while drawing, reloading, etc and goes over the "Load and make ready", "unload, show clear" etc.
Yup we are trying to re introduce it instead of the BB requirement. We have a program, but it was dropped for BB requirement because it didnt require any staff for the "3gun clinic".
Trying to overturn that decision by proving that Canada runs 3guns without BB while still being safe. On the other end, CQB at the same club doesnt require anything...
Trying to overturn that decision by proving that Canada runs 3guns without BB while still being safe. On the other end, CQB at the same club doesnt require anything...
In the end... It's up to whomever is running the match.
I have my own criteria, which I reserve the right to change at will.
If a shooter says they hold a BB it gives me a general idea that they should know what they're doing. 'Same goes for a shooter who says they've shot PPC or IDPA or whatever.
It's just an "idea" that they are competent. We won't know for sure until the shooting starts.
Unfortunately I can't just give police/military a pass in this regard. These shooters need to prove themselves just like everyone else.
Sure, lots of cops and army guys are safe... I've seen many that are not.
Not sure how relivant this is, but..
Our club was quite active for some time, we did a double IPSC qualifier weekend once a year and about 5 or 6 club matches (level 1's) that were as complete and complex as a level 2 match, just with fewer people and less administration. We tried IPSC multi gun but it failed to attract a following (I can see why 3gun gained popularity).
If you shot in an IPSC match the BB was mandatory and I like it, as a shooter at a larger match I find it relaxing I don't have to be on guard for other people's behaviour, they know what to do and what is expected of them.
People who wanted to check it out we invited to watch a club match and help (tapers are always needed) and at the end of it allowed them to try a few static shots on a target (our guns/ammo) . If they were hooked beyond that and wanted to shoot they were welcome providing they had the equipment and whether if they knew it or not were continually mentored by the squad, once we knew them all is good but if we knew them they wanted the BB so they could shoot matches...as RO's in a small club match (10-15 people)it is easy to know who needs attention.
As for LEO's, we had several come out but only one repeatedly (club matches) and they were nice guys but their firearm handling was not like ours (some were great but others were, well...). Most people had no problem with them using duty gear but a few were vocal on ten rounds only. I disagreed with them, Leo should use their gear as they would at work in my opinion and in a club match setting I would shoot with them again.
3gun is just starting in this area and those guys have an intro day to acclimatize new shooters which I am going to happily attend and I've shot IPSC for over ten years, shot trap and hunted since a kid. New games require new knowledge.
Considering the repercussions a club and match director should be asking if they have done their due diligence. Anyone who discounts or doesn't support some level of training or competency review I would bet:
1) I don't want to shoot with.
2) has never been on a club executive (or volunteered).
3) has never put on a match.
Our club was quite active for some time, we did a double IPSC qualifier weekend once a year and about 5 or 6 club matches (level 1's) that were as complete and complex as a level 2 match, just with fewer people and less administration. We tried IPSC multi gun but it failed to attract a following (I can see why 3gun gained popularity).
If you shot in an IPSC match the BB was mandatory and I like it, as a shooter at a larger match I find it relaxing I don't have to be on guard for other people's behaviour, they know what to do and what is expected of them.
People who wanted to check it out we invited to watch a club match and help (tapers are always needed) and at the end of it allowed them to try a few static shots on a target (our guns/ammo) . If they were hooked beyond that and wanted to shoot they were welcome providing they had the equipment and whether if they knew it or not were continually mentored by the squad, once we knew them all is good but if we knew them they wanted the BB so they could shoot matches...as RO's in a small club match (10-15 people)it is easy to know who needs attention.
As for LEO's, we had several come out but only one repeatedly (club matches) and they were nice guys but their firearm handling was not like ours (some were great but others were, well...). Most people had no problem with them using duty gear but a few were vocal on ten rounds only. I disagreed with them, Leo should use their gear as they would at work in my opinion and in a club match setting I would shoot with them again.
3gun is just starting in this area and those guys have an intro day to acclimatize new shooters which I am going to happily attend and I've shot IPSC for over ten years, shot trap and hunted since a kid. New games require new knowledge.
Considering the repercussions a club and match director should be asking if they have done their due diligence. Anyone who discounts or doesn't support some level of training or competency review I would bet:
1) I don't want to shoot with.
2) has never been on a club executive (or volunteered).
3) has never put on a match.
I must be one of those guys then, even though I:
1) Volunteer my ass off at our club;
2) Have MD'd and SO'd at mine and other clubs for the last 10 years and been club 3 Gun Coordinator since the position was created.
Having taken a course or reviewing competency doesn't mean the shooter can't or won't make a mistake.
We make it very clear to new shooters what is expected of them. Our SOs are there to help new shooters complete the stages safely, not "monitor and DQ".
Don't confuse differing view points on "mandatory" or "specific" training or instruction with carelessness or incompetence. We all want our events to run safely. There's more than one way to get there.
Since you're so utterly convinced yours is the only way, there's no point having a discussion.
Given the 10 years of safe, accident free matches we've had here and at the other MP3G clubs, it is demonstrably a successful path.
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