30.30 VS 7.62 x 39
- Thread starter Nate.308
- Start date
I used to hunt with a Mini-30. For ammo I pulled FMJ bullets and stuck in 150 gr RN 30-30 bullets. Sometimes I dropped the powder charge a grain. Sometimes I didn't. Rifle shot them well and I have no doubt they would have impressed a deer.
Here's a question to tickle the toes of the .30-30 fanboys:
Where are the chrony'd (not advertised) velocities for 16" barreled .30-30 semi autos?
It's great when people say how light and handy .30-30s are, and then start spouting off velocities out of 24" barrel.
Where are the chrony'd (not advertised) velocities for 16" barreled .30-30 semi autos?
It's great when people say how light and handy .30-30s are, and then start spouting off velocities out of 24" barrel.
Try a 123 grain SST launched @ 2500 fps. (easily attainable with a bolt action barreled accordingly).
Muzzle: 2500 fps / 1707 ft lbs.
100 yards: 2305 fps / 1452 ft lbs.
200 yards: 2053 fps / 1152 ft lbs.
300 yards: 1756 fps / 842 ft lbs.
Not exactly "twice the cartridge" as you put it. I'll say it again... yes .30-30 has an edge, not nearly as much as some are saying it does, and 7.62x39 doesn't automatically limit you to a 100 yard gun... that is pure BS.
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Well I had a bunch of rifles out today and some surprising results. One of my targets is a half inch thick ,steel plate 12x12 and shooting from 70 yards. My marlin 336 was putting big holes right thru (150gr flat nose federals). SKS with Czech surplus just putting little divots in the plate. I thought for sure the pointed Steel core rounds would go thru, but no.
My best load for the .30-30 gives 2250 out of a 20" barrel using RL15, 170 gr. bullet.
I guess you missed the part where he wanted to use an SKS????/ Last time I checked they were not bolt guns.
Lets put that 30-30 in a bolt gun and it would still blow away the x39
30-30 21" barrel
Fig. #2 — 125 gr. Ballistics
Nozler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip — Ballistic Coefficient 0.366
Distance Velocity in ft./sec Energy in ft./lbs Trajectory
Muzzle 2600* 2251 -1.5"
100 yards 2400 1919 +2.3"
200 yards 2200 1626 0"
300 yards 2038 1369 -9.4"
60% more energy down range....maybe not twice the cartridge but 60% more
Lets put that 30-30 in a bolt gun and it would still blow away the x39
30-30 21" barrel
Fig. #2 — 125 gr. Ballistics
Nozler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip — Ballistic Coefficient 0.366
Distance Velocity in ft./sec Energy in ft./lbs Trajectory
Muzzle 2600* 2251 -1.5"
100 yards 2400 1919 +2.3"
200 yards 2200 1626 0"
300 yards 2038 1369 -9.4"
60% more energy down range....maybe not twice the cartridge but 60% more
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Bolt or lever... both are manual actions and won't affect velocity like a semi can, so I'm not sure what your point about .30-30 in a bolt is? Yeah, SKS is semi auto. I regularly chrony Chinese non corrosive @ 2450 fps out of my SKS.
Yes, the OP did ask about SKS, again we're not far off the velocities I listed. You could mexican match the above-mentioned Chinese non corrosive with some V-Max or SST and be very close to specs listed above. Of course, threads do drift off the OP and we started talking about CARTRIDGES... instead of rifles. So what? It's relevant if you want an apples to apples comparison of the cartridges. And again, even out of a semi it's only off by 50 fps, with some experimentation and handloading you probably could get 2500 out of an SKS.
Now on to your specs... are you an accountant? Cause... that's some serious bad juju math you're throwing around out there. I don't know what kind of calculator you used to figure that out, and what kind ganja you be smokin' mon... but can I have some? I mean... I don't smoke, but if it's that good... I guess I could give it a go! Hah.
Let me fix that up for you.
Distance Velocity in ft./sec Energy in ft./lbs Trajectory
Muzzle 2600* 1876.78 -1.5"
100 yards 2400 1599.15 +2.3"
200 yards 2200 1343.73 0"
300 yards 2038 1153.12 -9.4"
So actually a 37% difference, not 60%. And I'm guessing that the load you listed there was an advertised load?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that those velocity numbers are accurate. The ballistics program I have shows lower velocities and bigger trajectory drops based on 125 grain @ 2600 out of the muzzle with a BC of 0.366.
Here's a useful link for you to check up on wherever you copied and pasted that BS from:
Muzzle Energy Calculator
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Yeah, .30-30 first marketed in 1895, people have been fiddling with it ever since... 7.62x39 was first in commercial/consumer hands... when?
Even then, it's always seen as a cheap plinking round, and while there are certainly some people that have been improving it and blazing a trail, most are just content to buy a case of cheap Czech and go blast. I think it's better than that.
You've found a node at which specific loads of .30-30 goes through a specified thickness of (what kind of?) steel and specific loads of 7.62x39 will not. There are a lot of factors to consider there. Thanks for the information, but it's really not indicative of much.
Yes, also, deer are not made of steel. Deer defense thread?
Thanks for the objective data point including barrel length. This is inline with other well-developed loads with heavy bullets out of .30-30.
Deer may not be made of steel, but they don't always present you with a picture perfect, broadside shot. Real hunters often have to take shots in real life conditions that include quartering, raking shots on deer. Sometimes they appreciate the extra penetration. Here is another concept, hunters have been known to hunt animals other than deer with a .30-30, i.e.: moose and bear, and those 170's come in handy.
I can appreciate the flexibility that .30-30 has with the ability to use heavier bullets. 7.62x39 doesn't have much case capacity to spare for anything bigger than about a 150. For my own personal philosophy this flexibility isn't an advantage, as I keep one rifle sighted in for one particular trajectory. I'm using Hornady bullets, so I can choose bullets of the same weight and BC, but different construction for different tasks (SST and Interbond, for example). No interbonds in .310" diameter, but the V-max and SST/Z-Max are the same BC. (Basically I look to vary my construction, instead of bullet weight).
Terminal ballistics is a complicated subject, to say the least, if that's what you're referring to when saying the 170s are handy.
Going back to the steel, the flat point of the .30-30 probably has more to do with punching holes than energy.
