So I hop'd on this forum last year round hunting time and learned and conversed alot especially since I'm a vz58 owner. Great group of people here, so a little fodder for the experienced and inexperianced who like to let others know there opinion. I have had a good hunting season so far 4 ducks and a goose. Since big game is coming up I thought I'd pose this query. For moose and *cross fingers* bison. Which gun would you rather have a remington 700 cdl 300 RUM or CZ550 in 416 rigby. I have access to a 700 in 300 wsm which will do moose just fine. But if you think that using something available is sufficient you wouldn't be here lol. Now bigger shot doesn't make an improper shot acceptable. The area I'm hunting is 50-75 yard clearings up to 200 max edge to edge and moderate brush. However for the sake of conversation lets keep hunting grounds open to anything. Guns can be changed if you suggest a different rifle, however must be these 2 cartridges. A superfast 30cal or a thick hard hitting .416, and if you think this is stupid please give a reason. I'm human and have been known to have some outlandish idea's and plans.
300 RUM & 416 rigby, Another which cartridge thread
- Thread starter cupar1
- Start date
I'm a big fan of large cartridges and both rifles will be more than adequate for the scenario you describe, I think the biggest questions that only you can answer are,
Can you handle the recoil?
Can you afford the ammo and time to be proficient with it, these will be above some peoples comfort level.
If you answer yes to these question and want them go ahead, but don't think that they are required.
Can you handle the recoil?
Can you afford the ammo and time to be proficient with it, these will be above some peoples comfort level.
If you answer yes to these question and want them go ahead, but don't think that they are required.
My plan is to own both eventually, as well as 2 other rifles and another shotgun. I've never been one to have an issue with recoil but I'm not to "manly" to admit I don't handle to noise well. When I shoot range I wear ear muffs. However I don't but should get plugs for hunting. Yes to big game, no to rum or rigby. I've shot 30-06, 300 win and wsm and 45-70. I also shot several other calibers but those are the closest to these calibers I've shot.
Several hundred 12 gauge rounds, about a dozen for the 300 win, about 60 for the 300 wsm, 15 for 30-06, 20 or 30 for 45-70. Hundreds of 5.56, thousands of 22lr, lots of 7.62x39, but those are not really in the same ball park though. I'm much more of a shotgun person, I love goose breast with side of horse radish.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You might be startled by the next level of recoil, a .416 Rigby makes a 3" Mag 12 gauge feel like a nice kid's gun. For your purposes, the .300 Win Mag will probably suit you a lot better. The .416 is roughly equivalent to firing three .300 Win Mag cartridges simultaneously from the same rifle, it's best kept for very experienced shooters. I respect your statements on being human and there are no dumb questions, the .416 is a perfect Bison cartridge but more than the vast majority of shooters can truthfully handle, even experienced ones.
I'd actually point you a .375 H&H Mag, it's the literal middle ground between the two cartridges you've selected, will do anything either of the other two will for the ranges and applications you're talking, and is likely the best all round cartridge ever devised. It's recoil is substantially beyond a .300 mag but still manageable for experienced shooters. This is probably still well beyond what most would shoot well with your experience, but it's a lot more manageable than the .416. It is also literally the perfect Wood Bison cartridge, I've used it on them myself.
I'd actually point you a .375 H&H Mag, it's the literal middle ground between the two cartridges you've selected, will do anything either of the other two will for the ranges and applications you're talking, and is likely the best all round cartridge ever devised. It's recoil is substantially beyond a .300 mag but still manageable for experienced shooters. This is probably still well beyond what most would shoot well with your experience, but it's a lot more manageable than the .416. It is also literally the perfect Wood Bison cartridge, I've used it on them myself.
Dogleg and Ardent have given good advice here. I don't mind the recoil of 375's, but over 40's (and I don't mean the 45/70) are a different ball game. Heavy recoiling rifles can be learned, but that they must be. Most shooters fire one once or twice and are turned off. I was, and am working on getting over it!
I find 300 super magnums to be an answer to a question that I've never asked.
I find 300 super magnums to be an answer to a question that I've never asked.
When you get up near your recoil tolerance limit it doesn't take much increase to go from "it's just a big push" to. "I'm kind of scared of it and this flinch is getting worse at every shot". That Rigby would be a big investment, rifle, ammo, reloading components etc to find out you hate pulling the trigger on it.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Another thing to figure is the cost of ammo. I have a .450 Rigby, same case as the .416 just necked up, and factory ammo sells for $200 for ten rounds (Wolverine). .416 does a little better but costs are still astronomical, and unless you plan to face elephants at twelve yards, few need that power and penetration.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Ammo cost isn't an issue, and I don't reload. I'm not a fan of 375 H&H so unless I get a bison tag, I'll be using a smaller caliber. Again it's just two calibers that fit the same area but are very, very, different. I thought it'd be interesting to hear other's idea's. Yeah the 45-70 shoots a big round but doesn't kick for anything. The worst kick back I've felt is 3" slug out of a 18.5 pistol grip, or a 338 rum. I only shot one round out of it and passed it off as I kept the scope a little to close to the face, didn't break skin but hurt me nose lol.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You came in here admirably frank for the internet, so good on you. Mind if I ask why you don't like the .375 H&H? Forgive me, it's my dear cartridge which I've put to work in a good few places on this planet, and have yet to find a shortcoming. It's a bit like defending a brother, someone says they don't like him, and you immediately have to question what they find wrong with him. 
The .375 H&H,
-Shoots as flat as a .300 mag using 235-260gr.
-Reaches as far as a .300 mag, delivering more energy at 500 yards than .45-70 factory at the muzzle.
-Offers a bullet range of 200 to 380 grains, customizable to any situation.
-The most proven dangerous game cartridge on the planet. It can act as a fast .30 or a .416 depending what hat it wears as a bullet.
-I've found ammo from Fort Nelson BC to backwoods Zimbabwe.
-Recoil is tolerable for most experienced shooters.
-Only 69.5 grains of powder will move a 350gr solid at 2450fps. That's encroaching on .416 Rigby with more cartridges in the magazine, and a lot less recoil.
-Alternatively, 84 grains of powder will move a 270gr Barnes at 3,000fps, doing everything a .300 does but with a lot more authority on target.
I'd reevaluate your opinion on the .375 H&H.
The .375 H&H,
-Shoots as flat as a .300 mag using 235-260gr.
-Reaches as far as a .300 mag, delivering more energy at 500 yards than .45-70 factory at the muzzle.
-Offers a bullet range of 200 to 380 grains, customizable to any situation.
-The most proven dangerous game cartridge on the planet. It can act as a fast .30 or a .416 depending what hat it wears as a bullet.
-I've found ammo from Fort Nelson BC to backwoods Zimbabwe.
-Recoil is tolerable for most experienced shooters.
-Only 69.5 grains of powder will move a 350gr solid at 2450fps. That's encroaching on .416 Rigby with more cartridges in the magazine, and a lot less recoil.
-Alternatively, 84 grains of powder will move a 270gr Barnes at 3,000fps, doing everything a .300 does but with a lot more authority on target.
I'd reevaluate your opinion on the .375 H&H.
id say .375 HH in a wood stocked model, I had a shot out of one in a Sako build I think it was, im not a fan of recoil but I did have a Buffalo in the scope so wasn't thinking too much about it, it felt fine an something I would use again if the opportunity arose, mind you I wouldn't sit down an sight it in or shoot targets with it but for Thump on big critters... Tick!
WL
WL
Sometimes I can't make any sense out of Barnes data, this being one of those times. I can't get within 100 miles of that with a 270 gr.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I've pushed them far too fast from my RSM, at a half grain over book my eyebrow has peaked as the chrono result pops up pushing the standard TSX with plain old H4350. Barnes seem to slug along, until the pressure maxes and they zip right at the peak picking up startling amounts of velocity in the last couple grains. Says to me the pressure is peaking likewise in a heck of a hurry.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I agree Dogleg, I'm just at 3000 fps with a 270 gr bullet in my .375 Ultra according to my Oehler, the Chrony suggests faster . . . guess which I'm inclined to believe.
OP, I had a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby for a short time and sold it because the rifle felt too big and too heavy for my tastes. My Brno 602 is lighter and handier. I think the advice towards a .375 is appropriate, and the Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger has its admirers if you want a stainless rifle. For that matter your might also consider the 9.3X62, which can be had in a Tikka T-3 and in various models under the Zastava name, the full wood stock version is certainly attractive. Despite being in the same weight range, 9.3 (.366) bullets are cheaper than .375s.
But once you enter the realm of the large mediums, handloading becomes essential. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can't buy enough factory ammo in order to gain a level of competence with these rifles. A side benefit is that if you need to acquire a taste for heavy recoil, as a handloader you can reduce the powder charge and the bullet weight, making the beast much more tolerable, without giving up much in the way of downrange performance. Overtime, you can increase the load as your comfort level allows. The versatility of any cartridge can be enhanced by the handloader, and so it is with the big mediums. With the right bullet and powder charge a .375 is suitable for any game from upland to elephants, it can be used effectively at any range from blood on the shoes out to a quarter mile and beyond, although either extreme requires some talent.
OP, I had a CZ 550 in .416 Rigby for a short time and sold it because the rifle felt too big and too heavy for my tastes. My Brno 602 is lighter and handier. I think the advice towards a .375 is appropriate, and the Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger has its admirers if you want a stainless rifle. For that matter your might also consider the 9.3X62, which can be had in a Tikka T-3 and in various models under the Zastava name, the full wood stock version is certainly attractive. Despite being in the same weight range, 9.3 (.366) bullets are cheaper than .375s.
But once you enter the realm of the large mediums, handloading becomes essential. Unless you are independently wealthy, you can't buy enough factory ammo in order to gain a level of competence with these rifles. A side benefit is that if you need to acquire a taste for heavy recoil, as a handloader you can reduce the powder charge and the bullet weight, making the beast much more tolerable, without giving up much in the way of downrange performance. Overtime, you can increase the load as your comfort level allows. The versatility of any cartridge can be enhanced by the handloader, and so it is with the big mediums. With the right bullet and powder charge a .375 is suitable for any game from upland to elephants, it can be used effectively at any range from blood on the shoes out to a quarter mile and beyond, although either extreme requires some talent.
