- Location
- rimouski, quebec
I would like know the PROS and CONS for those calibers.
Thanks
Alec
Thanks
Alec
300 RUM vs 338 RUM
- Thread starter alec ouellet
- Start date
Having owned two 300ultramags,I really liked the cartridge.
Pros-Very flat shooting
-reasonably priced brass
Cons-short barrel life(around 1500 rounds at most)
-more recoil that many people can handle
Having fired a 338 ultramag
Pros-more energy than the 300ultramag
Con-not quite as flat shooting as the 300ultramag
-even more recoil
Pros-Very flat shooting
-reasonably priced brass
Cons-short barrel life(around 1500 rounds at most)
-more recoil that many people can handle
Having fired a 338 ultramag
Pros-more energy than the 300ultramag
Con-not quite as flat shooting as the 300ultramag
-even more recoil
Pretty much sums it up. The 300 RUM has the advantage of using 30 cal bullets, of which there are many, many options (although the heavier ones work better, in my opinion). The 338 RUM makes a bigger hole, pushes even heavier bullets, and will equal the ballistics of the 338 Lapua at a much more reasonable component/rifle price. They both do kick a bit though. FWIW - dan
338 Ultra isn't as overbored as the 300 in a standard 26" barrel. ie. more efficient.
I was considering going to a 300 RUM from a 300 WM but looking at reloading tables and actual chronied results using industry standard 24-26" barrels, the ultra is not significantly faster. Where I understand it shines is in custom long range rigs with 28"+ barrels to burn up those hefty loads of slow burning powder.
I was considering going to a 300 RUM from a 300 WM but looking at reloading tables and actual chronied results using industry standard 24-26" barrels, the ultra is not significantly faster. Where I understand it shines is in custom long range rigs with 28"+ barrels to burn up those hefty loads of slow burning powder.
The Barnes website lists their max. velocity for the 180 gr. TSX as 3176 fps and for the 200 TSX as 3051 fps.
Hodgen, which now includes IMR powders lists their very max. load for 180 grain bullets as 3330fps and 3048 for 200 grainers, both using Retumbo.
If you guys are getting loads in great excess of that, then it is an impressive cartridge. My apologies for being wrong. I was alway under the belief that reloading manuals were fairly generous with their own velocity figures.
Hodgen, which now includes IMR powders lists their very max. load for 180 grain bullets as 3330fps and 3048 for 200 grainers, both using Retumbo.
If you guys are getting loads in great excess of that, then it is an impressive cartridge. My apologies for being wrong. I was alway under the belief that reloading manuals were fairly generous with their own velocity figures.
usually, lately, they're trying to "lawyer proof" thier loads. Tends to slow things down a tad. - dan
300RUM for me.
I'm getting 3375fps with 180gr nos parts. the hottest load seems to shoot the straightest in my gun. As far as kick, same or less with the custom muzzle break then my 7mmremmag without a break.
i bought the gun because a grizz guide from bella coolla (north BC) told me about it. claims it kills huge grizz as least as good as the bigger calibers.
I have shot deer, moose and bears with this gun. wouldn't trade it for anything. drops them on the spot. the only problem is that when you go through the shoulder it makes a rediculous mess...i don't think you would ever have to worry about loosing an animal with this caliber.
i don't shoot this gun for fun. i sight it in and it is my hunting rifle. so 1500 rounds is a lot of years for me.
I never shot the 338 ultra so can't comment on it but would never have a reason for needing more then the 300RUM anywhere in BC.
I'm getting 3375fps with 180gr nos parts. the hottest load seems to shoot the straightest in my gun. As far as kick, same or less with the custom muzzle break then my 7mmremmag without a break.
i bought the gun because a grizz guide from bella coolla (north BC) told me about it. claims it kills huge grizz as least as good as the bigger calibers.
I have shot deer, moose and bears with this gun. wouldn't trade it for anything. drops them on the spot. the only problem is that when you go through the shoulder it makes a rediculous mess...i don't think you would ever have to worry about loosing an animal with this caliber.
i don't shoot this gun for fun. i sight it in and it is my hunting rifle. so 1500 rounds is a lot of years for me.
I never shot the 338 ultra so can't comment on it but would never have a reason for needing more then the 300RUM anywhere in BC.
alec ouellet,
I own the 300 Win, 300 Ultra and the 338 Ultra.
Of the three if I had to pick just one it would be the 300 Win.
Of the 300 and 338 Ultras I would choose the 338. Properly loaded (to industry standards) the 338 Ultra will drive a 225 Nosler to just under 3200fps. If it can't be done with a 225 Nosler at 3200 it just can't be done. The slight advantage in trajectory the 300UM offers over the 338UM is of no advantage to the hunter. No matter what caliber you are shooting once the target range gets past 350 yards or so some form of trajectory compensation must come in to play so the term "flat shooting" means very little to me. The 300's greatest advantage is in the wind...The 338 on the other hand is a serious step up in the killing department.
The problem with these monsters (and the reason I recommend the 300Win) is the recoil they generate. Serious enough recoil to make accurate field shooting a serious issue for all but the most seasoned riflemen.
Put two shooters together one with a 30-378 and the other with a 30-06. Ask them to shoot a target 600 yards away and the best shooter will win every time.
Inside 350 yards the fast Ultras are of almost Zero advantage over most other cartridges.....So ask yourself honestly how often you shoot farther than that?
I own the 300 Win, 300 Ultra and the 338 Ultra.
Of the three if I had to pick just one it would be the 300 Win.
Of the 300 and 338 Ultras I would choose the 338. Properly loaded (to industry standards) the 338 Ultra will drive a 225 Nosler to just under 3200fps. If it can't be done with a 225 Nosler at 3200 it just can't be done. The slight advantage in trajectory the 300UM offers over the 338UM is of no advantage to the hunter. No matter what caliber you are shooting once the target range gets past 350 yards or so some form of trajectory compensation must come in to play so the term "flat shooting" means very little to me. The 300's greatest advantage is in the wind...The 338 on the other hand is a serious step up in the killing department.
The problem with these monsters (and the reason I recommend the 300Win) is the recoil they generate. Serious enough recoil to make accurate field shooting a serious issue for all but the most seasoned riflemen.
Put two shooters together one with a 30-378 and the other with a 30-06. Ask them to shoot a target 600 yards away and the best shooter will win every time.
Inside 350 yards the fast Ultras are of almost Zero advantage over most other cartridges.....So ask yourself honestly how often you shoot farther than that?
There's a reason why you see so many like new .300 RUM rifles for sale, with a partial box of ammo thrown in! 
My brother purchased a new LSS a couple of years ago. At the time, the ammo was almost $5.00 a round (factory). The damn think kicked like a mule and the muzzle blast is insane. For those who aren't recoil sensitive, either the .300 or .338 RUM are a blast to shoot, but unless you're a dedicated long-distance hunter or you're looking to regularly target practice out to 1000M, I'd definitely recommend something with a little less oompf. There are more user friendly choices to be had, and while factory ammo prices have come down, they're still relatively expensive to feed. If you reload, those big cases still eat a lot of powder, so its still relatively expensive to reload for with the high price of powder.
There isn't too much in North America that the .270Win, .30-06 Sprg., 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag can't reliably handle. The moose, elk or deer you shoot will rarely be able to tell the difference and there isn't a state of being called more dead, after being shot with an ultra mag!
My brother purchased a new LSS a couple of years ago. At the time, the ammo was almost $5.00 a round (factory). The damn think kicked like a mule and the muzzle blast is insane. For those who aren't recoil sensitive, either the .300 or .338 RUM are a blast to shoot, but unless you're a dedicated long-distance hunter or you're looking to regularly target practice out to 1000M, I'd definitely recommend something with a little less oompf. There are more user friendly choices to be had, and while factory ammo prices have come down, they're still relatively expensive to feed. If you reload, those big cases still eat a lot of powder, so its still relatively expensive to reload for with the high price of powder.There isn't too much in North America that the .270Win, .30-06 Sprg., 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag can't reliably handle. The moose, elk or deer you shoot will rarely be able to tell the difference and there isn't a state of being called more dead, after being shot with an ultra mag!
I find that guys always defend or promote the calibre they own or shoot, not always but most of the time. Nice to see a report from a fellow who owns all three and is not biased.
Cheers!!
i couldn't agree more scott r. and it was a great post by x-fan. and with the muzzle break the blast is hard to believe but it never bothered me. my friends love watching me shoot it. but go with the 300RUM. LOL. seriously, i think if i was to do it all over again and didn't like my RUM so much i would go with the 300WSM. the gun feels so sweet and small for the power you get out of it. in my opinion, the 300WSM has to be the "best" all round hunting cartridge in relation to rifle size and output...but my opinion of course. these debates can go on for years which is why there are so many different calibers out there.
I actually found recoil much harsher with a friends factory remington 700 than with my own rifles.My own rifles were built with heavier contour barrels,mcmillan stocks,and had decelerator pads installed.Most people that fired my guns were very surprised at how mild the recoil actually was.Even a friend that owns a sendero in 300 ultramag commented that he much preferred to shoot my rifles.
I couldn't agree more. Proper gun fit and design make an unbelievable difference to the functionality of a firearm. If you can afford it a custom Ultra Mag it is the only way to go.
My own 416 was the perfect example of this.....
Round one....Bell and Carlson stock 7-3/4 pounds scoped, loaded, and ready to rip your head off.
Recoil was viciously quick. I could shoot it accurately for 8 rounds and often pushed it to 10, but my hand shook badly and my eyes watered as soon as my fingers got near the trigger (I'm not kidding).
Never had a guy take more than one shot and sometimes (despite warnings) the shooter was bleeding. Twice shooters dropped the rifle.
Round two...The Bell and Carlson stock folded as did my VariX111 1X5 Leupold so I replaced the mounts (stronger), put on a McMillan stock, (Leupold warranted the scope) making the rifle 8 pounds even. Now I could shoot 10-15 rounds comfortably and stretch it to 20 before I started showing signs of physiological and physiological abuse. Some guys would reach for a second round and a few would shoot 3. The McMillan had a smaller recoil pad so I wrongly assumed it to be less comfortable in recoil. There must be something to McMillan's stock build or design because it was pure magic compared to the B and C.
As the new stock had a proper length of pull I never again had to apply pressure bandages to fellow shooters.
The bone spur on my middle finger (from smashing the trigger guard) re attached itself.
Round three....I swapped McMillan stocks between my 338 Ultra and my 416 (the 338 Ultra was a mag fill). My 416 now weighed a bit over 8-1/2 pounds and made it a nice comfortable shooter. My box stock Bdl 375 Ultra was both more difficult to control was much more painful to shoot.
My 375Rum now wears a mag fill McMillan.
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- Location
- Maple Ridge, BC
I have new 300 RUM. I fired it for the first time last weekend. What a flippin bruiser. The only reason I own it is I got pretty good deal on it with only 7 rounds fired though it (it came with a partial box of ammo, lol). I’m a lefty and finding good deals on left handed guns is rare. Still, I am regretting my purchase a little. It will be a pure moose and bear gun for me. I hate the fact that it’s only good for 1500 rounds. Makes me not want to take it to the range much but I really need more practice with it so I can be confident shooting it in a real world hunting situation. I bet I won’t fire more than 60 rounds a year though it.
That is the catch 22.If you don't practice with it,you won't be able to take advantage of the flat trajectory and less wind drift.If you practise enough to really get familiar with it,and maintain that familiarity,you will need to rebarrel it,if you plan on keeping it for several years.As such,an ultramag is a very poor choice for a one gun hunter.
I use a different approach than many people.I develop loads and fire my hunting rifles to verify trajectory at various distances,and to verify the sight in.However,I have another gun that I call my range gun that is built on the same action and stock,with the same trajectory.I practice with my range gun until the accuracy goes away,then I re barrel it.I do however let my range gun deteriorate much more accuracy wise than my hunting rifles,since it is only ever used for practice and never to hunt with.At the moment,I also have a 22-250 with the same action and trigger with a very similar trajectory,so it is also used as a practice rifle.In this way,I can practice as much as I want,my hunting rifles will probably last me the rest of my life,and I will only have to re barrel one or two range rifles every now and then.
I don't want anyone to think I don't like the 300 Ultra (I do), but I have seen this far too many times. If you want to hear this hunter's version of the 300 Ultra "cons", here are two caveats that are most often overlooked when choosing the 300 Ultra.
1) The 300 Ultra is at it's very best in wide (WIDE) open country in the hands of a seasoned hard core long range shooting junky. If you aren't one, or aren't willing to shoot out a barrel or two learning to be one, look elsewhere. The 300 Rum is a tough place to learn the long range craft and it is certainly no place for nor is it a reasonable tool for the "one or two box a year" hunter.
2) That the 300 ultra produces awesome energy figures that really gets the attention of deer sized game does not make it a better bear (or large game) rifle than the 30-06, quite to the contrary if I had to stand behind a 30 cal in a bear fight I would much rather stand behind a 30-06.
Case in point
Two weeks ago I was involved as a support hunter in a Bison hunt. The hunter used 200gr Nosler Partitions driven to 3100 fps. We stood watching as the shooter place 3 solid shots into the lungs (250 yards kneeling), then we stood there waiting for the buff to drop. Quite some time later I was handed the rifle and asked to finish the buff (the shooter was dealing with a scope cut).
Turned out the old buff had plenty of life left in him and started to trott off as I approached! I ran wide to within 150 yards broadside of the animal and (not wanting to wreck any more of the shooter's meat) shot twice into the head of the moving animal. Both shots landed exactly where I aimed (within one inch) and yet it did not go down. My first shot was at the eye and the second was at the base of the horns (I couldn't see or make out the ear from that distance). Two more shots to the body and it finally went down.
Here is a picture I took of the head (sorry about the gore).
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u223/d200x/IMG_0393.jpg
So what happened? Well to make a long story short the front of the partitions blew off in the hide and then the back half made slightly over bullet diameter holes in the lungs. The head shots??? Bottom line is that I missed the brain cavity, but I will mention that you could grab the horns and rotate the skull in 20-30 degrees in either direction. This pretty much tells me that all that went through the skull were a couple of bullet diameter wadcutters.
In retrospect I wish I had photographed the lungs and skull in more detail for all to see.
The whole point I am getting to is that Bison hide and other big animals (up close) are tough on bullets and may not be a great candidate for the 300 Ultra but I guarantee you by lessons learned via the school of hard knocks that wet grizzly fur is way (WAY) harder to get through with a super high speed bullet.
Does this mean I think the 300 Ultra doesn't work??? Of course not.
To me it does mean there are better and more well rounded tools for big game hunting inside 400 yards and way better big bear calibers.
You will see me packing one on open country Mulie hunts!
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The 300ultramag is at it's best anywhere longer shots are possible,whether it be on wide open fields,the mountains,cut lines or power lines.
I for one would choose a 300ultramag over a 30-06 when faced by a bear.
I drive the 180gr tsx at 3380fps,and even when striking heavy bone,they expand well and hold together.Below is an example of a 180gr tsx recovered after destroying a large section of elk spine.It expanded to .800".
The 300ultramag is at it's best anywhere longer shots are possible,whether it be on wide open fields,the mountain,cut lines or power lines.
I for one would choose a 300ultramag over a 30-06 when faced by a bear.
I drive the 180gr tsx at 3380fps,and even when striking heavy bone,they expand well and hold together.Below is an example of a 180gr tsx recovered after destroying a large section of elk spine.It expanded to .800".What do you think the buffalos reaction would have been after being struck with this bullet?
