300 RUM vs 338 RUM

[stubblejumper]

The 300 Ultra is at it's very best in wide (WIDE) open country in the hands of a seasoned hard core long range shooting junky.

The 300ultramag is at it's best anywhere longer shots are possible,whether it be on wide open fields,the mountain,cut lines or power lines.

That the 300 ultra produces awesome energy figures that really gets the attention of deer sized game does not make it a better bear (or large game) rifle than the 30-06, quite to the contrary if I had to stand behind a 30 cal in a bear fight I would much rather stand behind a 30-06.

I for one would choose a 300ultramag over a 30-06 when faced by a bear.

Well to make a long story short the front of the partitions blew off in the hide and then the back half made slightly over bullet diameter holes in the lungs.

I drive the 180gr tsx at 3380fps,and even when striking heavy bone,they expand well and hold together.Below is an example of a 180gr tsx recovered after destroying a large section of elk spine.It expanded to .800".What do you think the buffalos reaction would have been after being struck with this bullet?

 

[JasonYuke]

My own 300ultramags develop 3380fps with the 180 gr tsx using 26" barrels.That is a step up from the 300wby,let alone the 300winmag.

You are 100% right about that weatherby fibbs a bit on what youcan achieve velocity wise, I had to work dam hard to get 3200 fps, push th elimits out of my 300 wby, and as for my 300 win it 100 fps below that!

 

[stubblejumper]

You are 100% right about that weatherby fibbs a bit on what youcan achieve velocity wise, I had to work dam hard to get 3200 fps, push th elimits out of my 300 wby, and as for my 300 win it 100 fps below that!

My own 300wby would deliver 3250fps with a 180gr bullet,but that is still over 100fps slower than my 300ultramag.As well,I did get a box of factory loads with my 300weatherby,and they were so hot,that the primer pockets were loose after a single firing.

 

[ULFHEDNAR]

for hunting, i prefer the 338 win mag but that wasnt the question.i shoot a 700P in 300 RUM.to be honest, i went into wholesale sports to pick up a 308 varmit and the closest thing they had in a remington was a 300 magnum in a police HB.got a great deal and it turns out the 300 magnum was a RUM not a winchester.i proceeded to buy dies because i saw the price of factory ammo and have loved this calibre ever since.aqs i said,i dont hunt with it but at long range paper and balloon punching its hard to beat a 220gn matchking doing 3160 fps with BC of .655.i know that on paper,the bullet is still supersonic 1500 yrds and shooting at steel at 700 m my 30 cal flying pencils where punching through steel plate that stopped 250 gn 338 lapua rounds.so....if you are tring to interdict varmits hiding behind half inch mild steel plate at 700 meters,the 300 rum will out perform the 338 rum.as afr as being hard to shoot,sure hold on,i think that on paper my gun generates 38 lbs of recoil and i am 200 so my shooting mat will stay in the same spot,so thats good enough for me

 

[Bronco Boy]

Here’s my logic. 60 rounds a year though the 300 RUM. 4 trips to the range in late summer/early fall with 10 shots per visit leaving 20 rounds for hunting season. Of course I’ll take a bunch of other guns to the range each visit as well to make it worth my time. 60 rounds a year = a 25 year life span for the rifle and I’ll pretty frigging old in 25 years. I know 40 practice shots per year is not a lot but if each one is done thoughtfully and carefully it’s not that bad either.

 

[PeterPan]

For any large game in North America upto 300-400 yr .338RUM will do it
For long range hunting upto 800yr .300RUM with 180 or 190gr bullet, limited to shooter skill and experience.

 

[stubblejumper]

Here’s my logic. 60 rounds a year though the 300 RUM. 4 trips to the range in late summer/early fall with 10 shots per visit leaving 20 rounds for hunting season.

It could easily take 50 rounds to develop a load suitable for the rifle.Then it will take at least a group at each distance out to 500 yards just to learn the actual trajectory of the load.You are at 100 rounds or so,and haven't even started practicing.Unless you have another rifle to practice with that has a trajectory very similar to the 300 ultramag,40 rounds per year of practice is not nearly enough to develop and maintain the skills necessary to be competent at the ranges that the 300 ultramag offers any advantage at.If you are going to limit yourself to 40 rounds of practice per year,you would be just as well off by limiting yourself to 300 yards and buying a 30-06.

 

[alec ouellet]

thanks a lot for your answers

Alec

 

[Bronco Boy]

It could easily take 50 rounds to develop a load suitable for the rifle.Then it will take at least a group at each distance out to 500 yards just to learn the actual trajectory of the load.You are at 100 rounds or so,and haven't even started practicing.Unless you have another rifle to practice with that has a trajectory very similar to the 300 ultramag,40 rounds per year of practice is not nearly enough to develop and maintain the skills necessary to be competent at the ranges that the 300 ultramag offers any advantage at.If you are going to limit yourself to 40 rounds of practice per year,you would be just as well off by limiting yourself to 300 yards and buying a 30-06.

I agree 100%. I only ended up as a 300 RUM owner b/c it was a great deal; as I said, I kind of regret my purchase but now that I own it don't want to wear it out in under 5 years. I don't reload so I am stuck with factory ammo; for me it's just a matter of sighting in and practicing out to 300. Regardless of my rifle I would not ever take a shot past that range so ya I would have been better of with a 30-06 or 308 perhaps but I got this puppy now so I might as well use it.

 

[PE90SHOOTER]

My LH Rem 700LSS in 300 RUM has a muzzle brake. Kicks like my .308. Chrony tells me that the 180gr Accubonds are averaging 3350fps with 94.5gr of Rel25. After doing the trigger and bedding the action/free floating the barrel it will shoot under .75" at 100m for 3 shots. Best was .51".

After the 2 deer it shot this year I may change over to Barnes TSX's. Both were under 200 yards and were DOA of the bullet. But at those speeds even an excellent bullet like this can damage meat. Can anyone here give me some feedback on the TSX's other than the excellent pic posted earlier?

 

[stubblejumper]

My partners and myself have been using the tsx in a the 300 ultramag,and in a few 7mm remm mags for a few years now.In our rifles,they are more accurate than partitions,and they out penetrate the partition,even when lighter weight tsx bullets are used.Fouling is virtually non existent,and we are able to gain slightly more velocity with the tsx without any pressure signs appearing.

 

[Brambles]

I have a 300 ultra mag in a Sendero SF, I find the heavier barrel and HS precision stock really sucks up the recoil and muzzle jump, I don't mind it at all. Of course I have only shot factory ammo 180 gr noslers. Just got my dies and will be hand loading specifically for a trip to Saskatchewan next year if all goes as planned.

 

[p-17]

I was present when Bronco was shooting his Ultramag last weekend and it was quite a cannon. While Bronco doesn't have tons of experience, he is clearly a "natural" shooter because he handled my P-14 ".303 Winchester Magnum" like it was a .243, so he is no recoil wimp by any stretch of the imagination.

This just goes to show how much harsher the recoil on the Ultramag is compared to the ordinary, old-fashioned .300 Winchester Magnum.

Personally, I consider the Ultramag to be a specialist cartridge, designed for game shooting between 600 to 1000 yards. Since I don't plan to shoot game beyond 600 (and inside 600, my .300 Winchester with a 180-grain Accubond at 3,060 is more than up to the task, especially since I use a mil-dot scope and a laser rangefinder -- and I have a fair amount of experience shooting competitively at 600 metres), I don't personally have need for the Ultramag. I respect the hunters who can really wring it out, though.

No matter what anyone says, this is NOT the rifle for a novice hunter or shooter. Like I said, if you plan to keep your shots inside about 500 or 600 yards, the average shooter would be much better served with a .300 Winchester or 7mm Remington Magnum. Frankly, if you plan to keep shots inside about 350 yards, then a .30-06 or .308 with a 168-grain TSX is more than enough. How many of the AVERAGE hunters out there can realistically connect on game beyond 350 yards from field positions? (I do NOT consider guys like Stubblejumper to be anything close to the average hunter in terms of ability, experience or hunting techniques. Guys like Stubblejumber are who the Ultramags are made for -- true long range hunters. Most of us will never reach that level.)

Having said this, if I had to choose an Ultramag to use, I'd personally go with the .338. It really is better "balanced" ballistically than the .300, in my opinion. It's actually very close to the .338 Lapua, which is the current king of long-range sniping and Canada's long range military sniper cartridge.

By balance, I mean that the powder charge is not as disproportionate to the bullet diameter and weight as is the .300. (The 7mm is worse yet, and that is why nobody talks about it much anymore.)

I don't see a significant trajectory difference between the .300 RUM and the .338 RUM, assuming you load proper VLD bullets, and I believe that for real serious long range work (i.e., 1,000+ yards) a heavy, streamlined .338 will defeat the wind better than a .30, and will shoot just as flat, if not flatter. It will also hit harder and make a bigger hole. In addition, I'd expect that barrel life in the .338 would be slightly better.

This is not to slag the .300 Ultramag in any way. I just think that the .338 is better balanced and hits harder -- for those who can handle it.

 

[stubblejumper]

P-17.
Thanks for the vote of confidence,but the truth is that I have never attempted a shot at a big game animal at over 500 yards,and I have no intention of ever doing so.I have killed several big game animals at over 400 yards,but to date my longest kill(and longest shot taken) was 480 yards.I was using one of my 7mmstw rifles at the time,and to tell you the truth,the 7mmstw is still my favorite cartridge.
I had a 300ultramag built because I was curious and wanted to try out the cartridge.I liked it so much,that I had a second 300 ultramag built,and after nine elk and two moose taken with the 300 ultramags,I am very impressed with the cartridge.
On the other hand,from what I have seen over the past few years,it seems like many people are buying the ultramags and weatherby mags,with the misguided notion that if they shoot a long range cartridge,they magically become a long range shooter.
The truth is that it takes many hours developing loads,learning trajectories and wind drift,and many more hours shooting to develop and maintain the skills necessary to take advantage of the ultramags and similar cartridges.
Due to vision issues over the past two years,I myself have not spent nearly as much time hunting and shooting,as I have in the past.As a result,I will be the first to admit that my own shooting skills are not up to their usual standard.As such,I would not attempt some shots at game animals that I once considered routine.However,if my vision issues are resolved,I hope to remedy that situation by next year.
The bottom line is that as you stated, a long range cartridge is no advantage to the average person,and for that average person,cartridges such as the 300 and 338 ultramag are actually a disadvantage.

 

[X-fan]

I drive the 180gr tsx at 3380fps,and even when striking heavy bone,they expand well and hold together.Below is an example of a 180gr tsx recovered after destroying a large section of elk spine.It expanded to .800".What do you think the buffalos reaction would have been after being struck with this bullet?

Stubblejumper

I personally believe the 200 Nosler to be the finest general "do all" bullet made for a 30 cal (30-06 on up). With this bullet all of my 30 cal mags will group inside 2" at 350 yards. While accurate the 180 and 200 TSX have never held this kind of consistent accuracy at long range. As far as game performance on animals up to and including moose the 200gr Nosler partition shreds internals and induces incredible blood loss. More so than any other bullet I have ever used in a 30 cal.

Obviously the combination of high velocity and the dense bison created a circumstance of terminal performance that is outside the performance envelope of this bullet.


In hindsight do I think the TSX would have been a better choice for bison...Probably
Do I believe the TSX would have worked better on the bison....maybe but that is hard to say for sure. I have blown some to all of the petals off of X and TSX bullets many times. I have recovered most of the TSX bullets I have shot....Something that I (personally) don't like. TSX's with some of the petals blown off often veer wildy off course........Like I said before you are asking a lot from any bullet at the extreme velocity the 300 super magnums are capable of.

 

[stubblejumper]

With this bullet all of my 30 cal mags will group inside 2" at 350 yards. While accurate the 180 and 200 TSX have never held this kind of consistent accuracy at long range.

In both of my 7mmstw rifles,and in both of my 300ultramag rifles,the partitions have been lacking for accuracy compared to most other bullets.On the other hand the tsx and the mrx have proven to be consistently accurate to 500 yards.

As far as game performance on animals up to and including moose the 200gr Nosler partition shreds internals and induces incredible blood loss. More so than any other bullet I have ever used in a 30 ca

Earlier in my hunting career,I used partitions exclusively,and it was normal for animals to run a bit before dropping,sometimes up to 200 yards with a lung shot.That hasn't happened for me with either the tsx or the ballistic point.

Like I said before you are asking a lot from any bullet at the extreme velocity the 300 super magnums are capable of.

And with nine elk and two moose killed with the 300ultramag,not one animal traveled more than a few yards,or required a second shot.I have had similar results with the 7mmstw,when not using partitions.

 

[Bronco Boy]

I totally agree with the all the comments that the experienced shooters are making about the RUM’s being a specialty caliber for seasoned veterans. I would not even consider buying one knowing what I know now but alas I have one sitting in my gun cabinet. I may leave it for a while and purchase 308 or similar gun just to gain experience before shooting it again. I am also considering getting into reloading and think I will get more benefit out of my 300 RUM after I figure out how to work up loads and such. Thanks for the kind works P-17; I did shoot lots and lots as a kid and young man but all light stuff, my “big” gun was my inherited model 94 in .30-30, lol. Looks like I’m in the market for a new gun!

 

[ottawaguy]

I don't have a 338, but I do have a 300RUM and a 7mm.
First let me say that I live in Ottawa, wide open shots just are not going to happen for me. Maybe a farmers field being the longest, even then 300 yards tops.
My 7mm gets more attention from me than the 300RUM does. In fact I have sighted in the RUM and thats about it. I shoot factory throught it, but never explored what it can do. I just dont have a need for it.
Not much I cant do with my 7mm and a Barnes bullet. If I ever feel that I need more gun, I have a 375H&H.

Who knows, maybe if I moved back to Alberta and have some open land to hunt and shoot the 300RUM might get dusted off.

 

[Scobo]

Lots of good opinion here and i can't even remember the question. But to comment on the only real need for a 300RUM is over 500 yards I think that quite a few guys might disagree as do I. You can kill anything with non-mag calibers inside 200 yards however, when i am out bear hunting, even "just" black bears I can tell you I would rather shoot them with a 300RUM then anything else from any yardage. I have shot or been with guys that have shot bears/deer/moose with 308, 30-06, 7mm rem mag and 300 win mags from 50 yards out to 300 yards and i assure you that there is a world of difference in how fast the animal dies compared to an RUM. with non RUM calibers most animals all run some distance. and i 2nd stubblejumper in saying the moose, bears and deer i have shot with the RUM haven't gone more then 2 yards if that. you almost have to go up to them and kick them over. as hunter i like that about the caliber.

to add to this, a grizz guide turned me onto this caliber. said of all the big calibers he has seen nothing dropped a grizz as hard as the 300 rum and was his #1 choice of anything up to a 375 h&h (HE CLAIMED).

338 vs 300RUM's? - i guess, i would vouch for 300RUM (cause i don't know anything about the 338) but also as a hunting rifle you don't need any more power then the 300rum in canada and you can get extreme yardage out of it if you were that good.

 

[bisonhd]

Reminds me of some of the magical myths that were being told when the 7mm Remington mag. came out. "Killed way out there, laser like trajectory, in fact so formidable that 'they' were going to ban it for hunting."