303.....what happened

Kevan said:
And some of the bullets they made were pretty decent.
I have always been very happy with the old Kling-Kore SP, an ugly blunt bullet with the crimps in the side of the jacket to hold the core.
For me, it killed as well as a Nosler Partition, luckily I have enough to last my days..
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I thought the best penetrating bullet was the 180 grain Copper Point Expanding. I shot the odd moose with them in the 30-06 and I think they were better than the Nosler partition.
Jack Boudrau wrote some good books on, among other things, grizzly bears, (Grizzly Bear Mountain, Crazy Man's Creek---) and has probably shot more grizzlies than anyone else on here. He used the 30-06, with Dominion Copper Point Expanding exclusively, and wrote how good they were.
Bruce
 
Biggest reason I can think is the fact that it uses a different diameter 30 cal bullet than the 308. I never bothered much the 303 due to the fact that a person has to buy seperate bullets.

Ballistically its no winner but certainly effective. I think the real killer will the rash of low cost hunting rifles that have hit the market lately. The big reason to use the ole 303 newfie moose rifle is that they are cheap. The low cost 308 hunting rifle is going to kill any market for the 303. It will remain only for the un sporterized collector Enfields.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Show me ANY rifle that feeds more reliably than an SMLE.

Feeding issues don't exist with the SMLE, operator error does though, as with ANY other action. However, the rimmed cartridge adds the issue that the operator must pay attention when loading his/her rifle. That doesn't sound like a bad idea either!

I take issue with the ballistics statement as well. I think you will find the barrels have more to do with this idea.

To prove that, we need to find a modern rifle chambered for both a rimmed and rimless version of the same cartridge, where case capacity and shape was not changed. For example, is the pretty much dead 30 Rem superior to the 30-30? Nope. There are very small differences, but nothing that can't be attributed to small changes in case capacity etc. We can look at the 307 Winchester, but it's not chambered in a bolt gun, it's case is substantially different, and it's under loaded.

Now, if you were to for example take a 308, in a given rifle, fire it, record the ballistic performance, then take and cut space for a rim on that chamber, and produce a 308 case of identical proportions to the original case, but with a rim, you could make the comparison. I doubt you'd find any difference.
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7x57 vs 7x57R
 
Because back in the day they didn't have to take body armour into account in bear defence threads. Today ... whole different ball game, and since the .303 was popular long before armour everyone knows at the sight of it the .303 will just fall from the air.. Besides... if you carry an LE for some odd reason you must also carry tea and us North American's tend to be more coffee guys.
 
madashell said:
Because back in the day they didn't have to take body armour into account in bear defence threads. Today ... whole different ball game, and since the .303 was popular long before armour everyone knows at the sight of it the .303 will just fall from the air.. Besides... if you carry an LE for some odd reason you must also carry tea and us North American's tend to be more coffee guys.
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The old timers in the bush drank tea, more often than coffee. And that included the Native Indians.
 
H4831 said:
The old timers in the bush drank tea, more often than coffee. And that included the Native Indians.
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One tea bag can be re-used a number of times. Coffee is a one shot deal.
Soldiers in the trenches of WWI (including my grandfather) used the same tea bag over and over, until no flavour remained. He continued the practice as a trapper when he came home.
 
"why doesn't anybody bother making a 303 anymore?"

Because the .308 Win kicks ass, that's why.

But if you head on over to Youtube comments there's many people who will tell you that 303 and 7.62x54R are going to make a comeback any day now. And that every modern military force on Earth is "doing it wrong" and should really go back to using bolt action rifles for frontline soldiers.
 
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H4831 said:
I thought the best penetrating bullet was the 180 grain Copper Point Expanding. I shot the odd moose with them in the 30-06 and I think they were better than the Nosler partition.
Jack Boudrau wrote some good books on, among other things, grizzly bears, (Grizzly Bear Mountain, Crazy Man's Creek---) and has probably shot more grizzlies than anyone else on here. He used the 30-06, with Dominion Copper Point Expanding exclusively, and wrote how good they were.
Bruce
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His book are great! Have you read "king of the mountain"? Great read, believe it's the newest. love the old local story's. I like to hunt in behind Penny to and around the mcgregor. LOTS of grizzly around there, growing up there no doubt the man knows his bears! My 303 is yet to see the mountains though, some hikes into the alpine this summer will change that. No flys on the 303!
 
It has probably been said earlier but the 303 British was/is more popular in Commonwealth countries as it was the round that servicemen returning from the Boer war, WWI, WWII and Korea were familiar with. There were plenty of cheap serviceable surplus Lee Enfield, P14 Enfield and Ross rifles chambered for this round and available to Canadians. There was also a ton of milsurp ammo and commercial ammo available.

One of the few North American made commercial sporting rifles chambered for 303 British was the 1895 Winchester lever action. The majority of 1895's in 303 Brit were sold here north of the razor wire. The Americans had their own favorite chamberings in this rifle like the 405 Win, 30-06 and 30-40 Krag. The Ross rifle company also made commercial sporting rifles in 303 Brit.

The last run of commercially made sporting rifles made in 303 British, to the best of my knowledge, was the Gunnutz inspired production of the Ruger Number 1A single shot in this wonderful old caliber.
Even the Lee Enfield clones being made by AIA are in 308 or 7.62x39.

Despite the fact that the 303 British is a very effective and capable round, todays hunters and shooters just cannot buy a new rifle made in this chambering unless it is a custom job. But pretty much every major sporting arms manufacturer makes one or more models chambered in 30-06 or 308. With the US being 10X the population of Canada and the 308 and 30-06 being widely used throughout the world as well as being very effective and capable calibers in their own right, it is little wonder that the 303 British never caught on in the US in a big way.
The 303 is slowly losing popularity even here in Canada. But it is far from dead.
 
Raton57 said:
I have heard of accurate 303's but never seen one myself. The one I had everything was safe as long as I was trying to point in it's direction. Of course old CIL and Dominion Saber Tip ammo didn't make it any better.
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I have three of them that are very accurate.
My bud has two that are amazing.
Cat
 
fonestar said:
"why doesn't anybody bother making a 303 anymore?"

Because the .308 Win kicks ass, that's why.

But if you head on over to Youtube comments there's many people who will tell you that 303 and 7.62x54R are going to make a comeback any day now. And that every modern military force on Earth is "doing it wrong" and should really go back to using bolt action rifles for frontline soldiers.
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Are you the sort of guy who pee's in a hottub? Not judging, just saying...you bring; like, negativity to the whole scene here.
 
The 303 was so common with Canadian hunters after WW2 for one reason, that being an abundance of cheap surplus rifles. When the supply of cheap surplus rifles ran out, the lack luster performance of the 303 resulted in Canadian hunters choosing other cartridges, so there was no demand for the 303, and the firearms manufacturers didn't bother chambering rifles for it.
 
A rimmed cartridge is a serious disadvantage in automatic rifles and machine guns, and stagger loading a 20 round box magazine without the benefit of stripper clips would probably be screwed up by even those who know about the technique. Safe to say that despite it's suitable ballistics (150@2700) the .303 Brit as a viable modern military cartridge is dead.

So what of the use of the .303 as a sporting rifle cartridge? A rimmed cartridge is certainly an advantage in single shot rifles, and as has already been eluded to, the Ruger #1 is so chambered. Whether or not the demand for these rifles justifies their continued production remains to be seen. The Winchester 95 was chambered in .303, and neither it, nor it's .30-40 brother, had a reputation for feeding problems in this semi-modern lever action. The reliability and accuracy the .303 exhibited when chambered in P-13 & 14 Enfields, compared favorably with M-17s, but it doesn't require a degree in mechanical engineering to see that the rimmed cartridge poses potential feeding problems that doesn't exist with rimless cartridges of similar shape. So if the Winchester M-70, Remington 700, or Ruger 77 were chambered for the .303 British, who would buy them over the same rifles chambered in .308 or .30/06, except perhaps as a curiosity, like a pre-64 M-70s in .22 Hornet or .30-30.
 
When I started hunting 3 years ago I had no rifle and money to buy one was tight at the time. My uncle went to the closet and dusted off my grandfather's P14 303 and handed me a box of ammo. That old rifle still works good and I still used it this past year. The 303 will never truly die because of these reasons. It's still a cheap, entry level rifle that works. I'll keep mine and possibly hand it down to a family member one day. As for modern production, like others said it just doesn't make sense for manufacturers other than it has the history behind it.
 
I kinda get a kick out of people calling them a "cheap, entry level rifle"

To build a rifle to the same tolerances, with all that wood, nowadays...

You'd be looking at a $1200-$1500 rifle.
 
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