308 and IMR 4831

Found

Found

Regular
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Location
Rosseau, Ontario
I bought some 308 brass for my son's firearm and to break in the brass I decided to use some IMR 4831 powder I had lying around. I used the IMR 4831 powder in my 30-06 with some success but had a hard time finding a recipe for the 308. I found a recipe in the Lee manual that calls for 46 grains, which is almost maximum case capacity (3.38 cc and maximum is 3.43 cc). Also the starting load is the same as the maximum load at a 2225 FPS with a 180 grain projectile.
Anyone ever use IMR 4831 for the 308 and how did it perform?
 
As you can deduct, it is generally too slow burning for a 308.
Certainly won't hurt anything, as pressure will be very low. It may shoot pretty good, or, it may not be enough pressure to be consistant.
It would be a good plan if you tried it and told us how it worked.
As you can see by the figures you gave, it will be a hair better in power, than a 30-30.
 
I agree with trying Varget. I am currently in the load development process with my 6.5x55 Swede using IMR 4831 and believe it will be a winner through the 30" tube on that badboy, but it never even crossed my mind to try it in my .308 as it is rather slow burning. Either way the reloading is the wonderful mad science of this sport and half of the enjoyment IMO!
 
kmartel said:
I agree with trying Varget. I am currently in the load development process with my 6.5x55 Swede using IMR 4831 and believe it will be a winner through the 30" tube on that badboy, but it never even crossed my mind to try it in my .308 as it is rather slow burning. Either way the reloading is the wonderful mad science of this sport and half of the enjoyment IMO!
Click to expand...

Change to H4831 preferably short cut and work your load up, this is one of the best powders in the 6.5X55.
 
For the .308 there are alot of excellent choices, Varget, 4895, and a host of other med. burning powders, I think that using 4831 is a waste of bullets.
 
ben hunchak said:
For the .308 there are alot of excellent choices, Varget, 4895, and a host of other med. burning powders, I think that using 4831 is a waste of bullets.
Click to expand...

How is breaking in the brass (fireforming for his chamber) a waste of bullets? Makes perfect sense to use up powder he says he has laying around instead of "wasting" varget, 4895 etc. If it can be done safely, why not use it up?
 
If you want to use it to just fireform brass I would fill the case to 1/2 capacity,stuff in 1/2 of sheet of toilet paper and plug the case with wax,parafine or any wax like material (not glue) to make sure contents do not spill.

Load case into chamber,point rifle upwards(check with club rules and range officer if done at the club) and fire away.

Prepare 2-3 cases first,fire them,see how it works and if everything goes well do the rest.

I think that's the general way of fireforming with any given powder when NO PROJECTILE is used (very important).
 
To above comments.
Why would you fireform used brass for a 308 :confused:
Seems obvious to me the OP is not a target shooter requireing fireforming or he would have a better understanding of powder choice.
For any other kind of shooting involving a 308, most any mid range powder eg, 335-4064-4895-varget etc is a huge improvement over 4831, and simple full length resize is fine!
OP even implied he only had "some success" with 4831 in his 06, again, clearly indicates a lack of understanding of reloading principles.

To answer OP question
Anyone ever use IMR 4831 for the 308 and how did it perform?

No, for the same reason I wouldn't use Bullseye in my 308! poor choice.
"how did it perform"
I would imagine very poorly!
 
Last edited:
H4831 said:
As you can deduct, it is generally too slow burning for a 308.
Certainly won't hurt anything, as pressure will be very low. It may shoot pretty good, or, it may not be enough pressure to be consistant.
It would be a good plan if you tried it and told us how it worked.
As you can see by the figures you gave, it will be a hair better in power, than a 30-30.
Click to expand...

That was exactly what I was thinking and I will let you know how I make out. Maybe for the type of deer hunting we do loading up the 308 like a 30-30 may be a good idea. We hunt thick bush and a long shot is 50 yards, which loaded like above is more than enough energy.

sundance1972 said:
How is breaking in the brass (fireforming for his chamber) a waste of bullets? Makes perfect sense to use up powder he says he has laying around instead of "wasting" varget, 4895 etc. If it can be done safely, why not use it up?
Click to expand...

Precisely, all I am doing is trying to use up some IMR 4831 I had lying around taking up space.

senior said:
Why would you fireform used brass for a 308 :confused:
Seems obvious to me the OP is not a target shooter requireing fireforming or he would have a better understanding of powder choice.
For any other kind of shooting involving a 308, most any mid range powder eg, 335-4064-4895-varget etc is a huge improvement over 4831, and simple full length resize is fine!
OP even implied he only had "some success" with 4831 in his 06, again, clearly indicates a lack of understanding of reloading principles.

To answer OP question
Anyone ever use IMR 4831 for the 308 and how did it perform?

No, for the same reason I wouldn't use Bullseye in my 308! poor choice.
"how did it perform"
I would imagine very poorly!
Click to expand...

I am regretful if I was not clear but the brass was brand new out of the bag never used before. You are correct I am not a target shooter, just someone who likes to reload and shoot maybe 500-1000 rounds a year out of hunting firearms. I thought I would ask a question to see if someone had some experience I could learn from.
 
Found said:
I am regretful if I was not clear but the brass was brand new out of the bag never used before. You are correct I am not a target shooter, just someone who likes to reload and shoot maybe 500-1000 rounds a year out of hunting firearms. I thought I would ask a question to see if someone had some experience I could learn from.
Click to expand...

If your shooting 500-1000 rounds a yr,
surely you have a better powder on hand?
if not why would you not just buy a lb of appropiate powder?
if your just trying to use up that 4831, your best bet is to use it up in a far more appropiate caliber, even an 06 is far better solution to use it than a 308.
 
Just load the new brass with a faster-burning powder than 4831. You don't need to "break in" brass. Either use the 4831 in something else or trade it with somebody for a powder better suited to .308.
 
senior said:
If your shooting 500-1000 rounds a yr,
surely you have a better powder on hand?
if not why would you not just buy a lb of appropiate powder?
if your just trying to use up that 4831, your best bet is to use it up in a far more appropiate caliber, even an 06 is far better solution to use it than a 308.
Click to expand...

Senior I must apologize as it is obvious my post has offended you in some way and that was not my intent when I posted it. I just took a reloading recipe I had with some left over powder and decided to load up 50 bullets and ask a question. Attached is a picture of the reloading recipe from Lee Reloading Manual so you don’t think I am making the recipe up. I might not be the most accomplished reloader here and thought I could learn more asking questions on this forum. Is this not what these forums are for, learning and the sharing of information?

IMG-20120102-00138.jpg


I have always noticed that when you reload from brass shot from the same firearm it is more accurate. I was told because the brass has been fire formed to the chamber of the firearm. If I am incorrect then so be it as it seems to work for me and others I have talked to.

Another reason to use to use this powder is to introduce a couple of new shooters to centerfire rifles. My son’s girlfriend and a friend’s son would like to shoot centerfire (they have already been introduced to 22’s) and maybe this load will be reduced enough for them to shoot. So instead of buying a box of expensive Remington managed recoil loads (you know the slogan “Half the recoil. Twice the Confidence.”) it seems this way is more economical way to go. My son’s friend is thinking of buying him a youth rifle in 308 if this works. He was looking at a model that you can adjust the length of pull as they grow from 12” to 13” in change. So with managed recoil loads this firearm can take him from 12 years to when he is a man and can afford to buy a nicer firearm himself.
 
hi "Found" you have good logic in your post .
too bad others cant put on glasses and read some .dont let bad info from sources discourage you !you might find a bit more unburned powder in the barrel.....but that is why we clean and oil .
How is the accuacy with the load?Thanks
 
Well I have been off work for Christmas shut down for almost 2 weeks and did not get out shooting anything but the 22. I was going to try and get out today but it was too windy, we had a lot of snow fall that I had to clean up, and I had to bring firewood in the garage for the week. It’s back to work tomorrow and with the short days all I can get out now is weekends. I hope to get out soon and will report back how the load worked.
 
"Another reason to use to use this powder is to introduce a couple of new shooters to centerfire rifles. My son’s girlfriend and a friend’s son would like to shoot centerfire (they have already been introduced to 22’s) and maybe this load will be reduced enough for them to shoot. So instead of buying a box of expensive Remington managed recoil loads (you know the slogan “Half the recoil. Twice the Confidence.”) it seems this way is more economical way to go. My son’s friend is thinking of buying him a youth rifle in 308 if this works. He was looking at a model that you can adjust the length of pull as they grow from 12” to 13” in change. So with managed recoil loads this firearm can take him from 12 years to when he is a man and can afford to buy a nicer firearm himself."
-----------------------------------------------------
This is an excellent way to introduce new shooters to a centre fire.
And, in spite of some of the things posted on here, there is nothing wrong in using 4831 in a 308 Winchester. you will have a very nice load to shoot and probably quite accurate.
Actually, H4831 has been given as a choice for reloading a 308W. for a long time.
Hodgdon's have their reloading chart printed in the 1964-65 issue of Ellwood Epps catalogue.
I copied this out of it, as it relates to the 308 Winchester.
As you will see, the third column over is bullet weight.
Interesting to note on these old loading charts is that only four perameters are given, Charge, Powder, Bullet and
velocity.
Nothing about primer, OAL, or anything else.
002.jpg
 
LOADING GREATLY REDUCED CHARGES OF SLOW BURNING POWDER IS NOT RECOMMENDED--it is one of the leading suspected causes of "detonation" in rifle loads.
note, I said "suspected" so before the nay sayers rant off keep that in mind.

If op wants to use full charges to use up the powder there is no harm in that--as pointed out velocities will be low but sometimes accuracy can be quite good.
 
44Bore said:
LOADING GREATLY REDUCED CHARGES OF SLOW BURNING POWDER IS NOT RECOMMENDED--it is one of the leading suspected causes of "detonation" in rifle loads.


The OP said he was using about 46 grains of 4831. Do you know how much space this amount takes up in a 308 case?
46 grains of H4831 extends a bit into the neck of a 308 case.
How can this possibly be a "--GREATLY REDUCED CHARGE---"

The 53 grains, as shown in the Hodgdon chart, fills the case completely even with the top of the neck.
This is still shootable. I have loaded to the top of the neck with H4831, in both 30-06 and 270, then just forced the bullet in.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom