308 Norma Mag or 300 H&H Mag??

c-fbmi said:
Really Ted?..........I would not have thought that a 1-12 would stabilize the long 200 gn SPBT, I have never had a 30 cal with a 1-12 twist, all mine have been 1-10, which I believe to be the industry standard. That's good to know, I was speaking from a theoretical standpoint and from the charts which give bullet length to twist rate and then factor in velocity. You however speak from experience, so I must bow to your knowledge.............Are they still stable at 500 mtrs and beyond?
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I have a Husqvarna model 4000 light weight that I inherited from my Dad that is 1-12" and one of the best shooting bullet weights I've put through it is the Barnes 150gr TTSX.
 
Thanks for all the great input on this thread. This one took a little longer than I thought it would. Nobody's fault but my own though...I just kept hummin /hawwin over whether to re-chamber that B78 and maybe end up with something that wouldn’t do what I wanted it to do. And lo and behold... the perfect thing showed up to help me make up my mind. A Montana LA LH in a good stock and and in great condition :) So..on went a new Jury bbl 1-10 twist, chambered and installed by Custom GunWorx and off to the range I went. All the mechanical portions on the rifle worked perfect but....I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn!!! It took a bit of head scratching, a couple of checks, 18 rnds of ammo (I'm stubborn) and I couldn’t believe it but my S&B scope "crapped" on me :( So on goes a spare VX-1 and yea....this thing shoots !!! It shoots real nice :) Smoooooth recoil. So I've snagged a box of Accubond 210 LR's and have a few different loads ready to test as soon as it warms up a bit. I've been to the range at -30...like most things it can be done but its not worth it. Not for load development anyway :runaway:

The scope has gone for repair...maybe another thread when it makes it home.

So now that I have the "original 300 mag"...I think the next project is an "original 7mm mag". 275 H&H....a cartridge before its time because of powder development. TC Encore bbls come in 7mm Rem Mag.....1-9" twist :) why couldn’t a guy just re-chamber one of those?? Twist is right, chamber should clean right up, pressure wont be a problem, bbl is more than long enough...Thanks to a great trade I now also have a 375 H&H..in a #1. So the brass supply will not be an issue.

What have I missed this time :confused:

And I'll be damned if I can figure out why that image is loading sideways...
 

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270dave said:
....And I'll be damned if I can figure out why that image is loading sideways...
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Fixed it for you...... ;)



Nice outfit.

Before you go too far down the road, the 275 H&H will not clean up a 7mm Rem Mag chamber. It will, of course clean up a 7mm-08, 7X57 and perhaps a 280 Rem.

Also, the 275 H&H factory ammo uses .287 diameter bullets.

Ted
 
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Holland&Holland has a nice ring to it....
308 Norma Mag brings Blondes and Blue eyed lasses to mind with great big....ah never mind.
One needs both.
One for Deep Darkest Africa (Dr Livingston I presume) and the other for Meewwsses .
Tight Groups,
Rob
 
I think the 308 Norma is the best belted magnum available. The 300 H&H is NOT the original 300 mag; at least not in North America. That title would go to the 30 Newton.
 
I have a Pre-64 M70 in 300 H&H. I swear that it feeds smoother cycling rounds from the magazine than it does empty. With 180gr Partitions or A-Frames I can't imagine why it wouldn't do anything I want it to do.
 
Leeper said:
I think the 308 Norma is the best belted magnum available. The 300 H&H is NOT the original 300 mag; at least not in North America. That title would go to the 30 Newton.
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It may well be that the .308Norma is the "best"; I have no experience with it and don't know. We're splitting hairs here, when talking about a handful of assorted .300magnums and their relative usefulness as hunting cartridges. They're all good...

I agree with Rob, the name "Holland & Holland" just makes me smile, even when shortened to H&H. When we see one of the inevitable cartridge line-up photos, with all the usual suspects standing up in a row, the H&H just looks ###y...not high-tech, not state-of-the-art, not trendy...just ###y. :)

.30 Newton? I don't care if it was first; that name sounds like a diet snack, the kind that people eat because it's non-fattening, despite the fact that it tastes like a stale rice cake! :)
 
FLHTCUI said:
Holland&Holland has a nice ring to it....
308 Norma Mag brings Blondes and Blue eyed lasses to mind with great big....ah never mind.
One needs both.
One for Deep Darkest Africa (Dr Livingston I presume) and the other for Meewwsses .
Tight Groups,
Rob
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;) That may help explain why it's my favorite 30 cal Magnum and where it has worked well for me over the years ;) .
 
The 30 Newton was not only first but predated the current crop of beltless magnums by about eighty years. I suspect it wasonly Newton's personality which caused Winchester to open up their Model 70 for the H&H (which did not fit) rather than chamber the Newton (which did). If Winchester had adopted the Newton, we would probably have never seen an H&H in a factory rifle. We would also never have seen the 300 Win Mag, and probably none of the belted magnums. Likely, we would not have even had to suffer through the introduction of the WSM cartridges. In short, our lives would have been enriched.
 
Why not? said:
Fixed it for you...... ;)



Nice outfit.

Before you go too far down the road, the 275 H&H will not clean up a 7mm Rem Mag chamber. It will, of course clean up a 7mm-08, 7X57 and perhaps a 280 Rem.

Also, the 275 H&H factory ammo uses .287 diameter bullets.

Ted
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Thank you for fixing that...lot easier to look at :) Hmm .. I thought the 7 mag chamber was doable, the 7 rem mag came from the 264 win mag which came from the 275 H&H...must have got my measurements mixed up....no problem, they sell 7-08 bbls. And yes, I know the original was a .287 bore, and you can still buy those projectiles...although limited and at an incredible crazy price :runaway: I was thinking I would use the 275 chamber and a regular .284 bore. Some rifles were built that way: way back when; but I cant imagine their accuracy was the best... Most likely I will need to order a reamer, etc... to make this happen. If I have to go to that point I might just re-barrel that B78 to get what I want. This one could take awhile....
 
Leeper said:
I think the 308 Norma is the best belted magnum available. The 300 H&H is NOT the original 300 mag; at least not in North America. That title would go to the 30 Newton.
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HaHa I should have been more specific...the first "belted" 300 mag. Although the Newton didn’t really match the 300 H&H in velocity’s it was an incredible jump over all the other 30's at the time.
 
mbogo3 said:
Had Norma only released ammo at the same time as the guns the .300 Win mag wouldn't exist.Harold
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Back in the hay day of Norma products their ammunition was in any gun store in BC, at least, and sold for the same price as CIL brand shells. There was no 300 Winchester Magnum at that time, Winchester later brought it out to compete with the 308 Norma Magnum.
As of now, with no factory 308 Norma around, one would obviously choose the 300 W.
 
i found out when i lived in quebec that some ``old`` fellows around sept iles were using the 308 norma mag and they were using the old stock of factory they collected over the years ...
 
H4831 said:
Back in the hay day of Norma products their ammunition was in any gun store in BC, at least, and sold for the same price as CIL brand shells. There was no 300 Winchester Magnum at that time, Winchester later brought it out to compete with the 308 Norma Magnum.
As of now, with no factory 308 Norma around, one would obviously choose the 300 W.
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Living in the B.C. central interior in Wells, during the early 60's, when funds were available, I graduated from my Lee Enfield 303Br to a Parker Hale in 308NM. I saved a lot of paper route and swamping on a freight truck money for that purchase and when I got it, I couldn't have been prouder. What was quite a shock was the jump in the price of ammo between the two calibres. Dominion 303 ammo was going locally for about $3.50/box and the Norma 308NM ammo was $8.10/box. That was a few years ago :) .
 
If I was in the market for a .300, chances are I'd end up with the Winchester flavor. That said, I like the idea of the H&H, which provides higher velocity with heavier bullets. I think the M-70 marked .300 Magnum (because there was only one) was a 1:10, and the Europeans preferring light bullets, tended to prefer 1:12 for their .30s. My wife's .30/06 Husqvarna is a 1:12, and it doesn't particularly like the long 240 gr Woodleighs, or the first version of the .308/200 gr X. But I never got reasonable accuracy from the 200 gr X from my 1:10 barrels either. A 220 gr flat base round nose, with parallel sides seems to work in a 1:12, but that shape makes the bullet as short as possible for it's weight, whereas a spitzer boat-tail of equal weight wobbles. For a game bullet to perform well, it must be able to quickly recover from impact induced precession, and a long heavy bullet is at a disadvantage in this respect when fired from a 1:12, even though it might be moderately stable in flight. The problem is further exasperated if the bullet is tapered, since the heavier base will try to lead once the bullet encounters a denser than air medium, and you might observe a squashed base on a recovered bullet.
 
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