.308 Norma Magnum

I had them in factory form and I loaded 200 - 300 of them over the years they consistently gave me 3/4" groups at 100 yards.

Excellent performing bullet on any game I ever shot with them.
 
Camp Cook said:
I had them in factory form and I loaded 200 - 300 of them over the years they consistently gave me 3/4" groups at 100 yards.

Excellent performing bullet on any game I ever shot with them.
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Interesting stuff ! Can you recall approximately what years those were available... must have been long before the Ballistic Tip, but could it have been around the time that CIL / Dominion came out with their Sabre-Tip bullet?
Would certainly be interesting to know who was the first...

Thanks CC.
 
I hunted with this rifle for appr 20 - 25 years it has been parked for about 6 years now.

I had these bullets when I first started shooting the rifle.

My grandfather had given me the rifle and the factory loads so I have no idea how long he had them before he handed them over.

I bought and loaded the bullets in the very early 80's.

I'm betting your factory rounds are loaded with 75gr Norma MRP powder.
 
Camp Cook said:
I hunted with this rifle for appr 20 - 25 years it has been parked for about 6 years now.

I had these bullets when I first started shooting the rifle.

My grandfather had given me the rifle and the factory loads so I have no idea how long he had them before he handed them over.

I bought and loaded the bullets in the very early 80's.

I'm betting your factory rounds are loaded with 75gr Norma MRP powder.
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I should pull one just to satisfy curiosity...
 
I have Norma catalog from 87' and they recomend four hunting bullets; PPC, Nosler Partition, Alaska and Dual Core that has yellow plastic round tip. No doubt in my mind that Cil/Dominion used the plastic inserts in bullets first as far back as 60'.
 
Interesting discussion guys. I mentioned in a previous post, that I had a leaflet from Norma in addition to a ballistic booklet and a 'Gunbug' reloading manual. As in the following, I've scanned the leaflet front page and a page showing bullets circled, that I believe to possibly be nylon tipped.

NormaLeaflet1.jpg


NormaLeaflet2.jpg


In 'sort of' a related topic, when I acquired a Husqvarna in 358NM, I was also fortunate enough to pick up seven boxes of Norma factory ammo at a local gun show. Two of the boxes are loaded with the traditional dual core "Tri-Clad" jacket, 250gr that look like the 200gr and 250gr on the Norma bullet display board I mentioned previously. The remaining five boxes are also loaded with a 250gr bullet, but a copper jacketed variety and not on my display board.

358NM1.jpg


Not very clear:redface:, sorry but the bottem box is the one loaded with the Tri-Clad bullets. The difference shown below.

358NM2.jpg
 
I shot some of that Plastic tipped, "dual-core" ammo in my 308 Norma Mag back in the day.
I have a recovered sample from a Moose, it is as perfect a mushroom as you could wish to have.
I have about 30, 180 grain dual-core, plastic tipped bullets as components.
I have not loaded them in my Norma Mag yet.
One day, I'll experiment, but for now, TTSX, Partitions and Accubonds are doing very well.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
I agree with Camp Cook on the timeline...late 70's, early 80's these were available in loaded ammo and as reloading components.
They have a Mild steel jacket, a yellow plastic tip, and a cannelure.
They are flatbased bullets, and the ones I have mike right at .3078" diameter.
They were listed as dual-core design [a softer core up front, harder one at the rear]
Expansion seemed to be quite reliable at 308 Norma Mag Velocities.
Probably a decent design in their day.
Here's a bit of trivia: The first box of 308 Norma Mag ammo I bought in 1966 was priced at $7.49, and the brass had the little "re" on the headstamp, indicating the brass was reloadable with boxer primers.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
Eagleye said:
I agree with Camp Cook on the timeline...late 70's, early 80's these were available in loaded ammo and as reloading components.
They have a Mild steel jacket, a yellow plastic tip, and a cannelure.
They are flatbased bullets, and the ones I have mike right at .3078" diameter.
They were listed as dual-core design [a softer core up front, harder one at the rear]
Expansion seemed to be quite reliable at 308 Norma Mag Velocities.
Probably a decent design in their day.
Here's a bit of trivia: The first box of 308 Norma Mag ammo I bought in 1966 was priced at $7.49, and the brass had the little "re" on the headstamp, indicating the brass was reloadable with boxer primers.
Regards, Eagleye.
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Looks as though we got involved with the 308NM at about the same time ;). As I mentioned in post # 40, my first 308NM ammo set me back $8.10 about 1965. Quite a jump from the $3.50 I had been shelling out for my 303.

With the Norma brass I have, for the 7x61 S&H, 308 NM and now also for the 358 NM, some of the brass has that Re as part of the headstamp and probably about the same amount does not. I'm guessing, that possibly on the later production runs, stamping the Re was discontinued.
 
Johnn,

The Re cases are those offered as reloading components; I'll try posting a pic of their box later tonight.
on another subject, the twist rate chart you displayed (and re-posted by others), I can see at least two errors;
Husqvarna did not factory chambered the .308 Norma Magnum - while they "might" have done it on (very) special order.
The 1651 (.358 Norma Magnum) have a twist rate of 1:10
 
Baribal said:
Johnn,

The Re cases are those offered as reloading components; I'll try posting a pic of their box later tonight.
on another subject, the twist rate chart you displayed (and re-posted by others), I can see at least two errors;
Husqvarna did not factory chambered the .308 Norma Magnum - while they "might" have done it on (very) special order.
The 1651 (.358 Norma Magnum) have a twist rate of 1:10
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Hey guy,:D glad to see your input. The Re on the headstamp, designating it as a reloading component makes sence.

With my 308NM brass, much of it I collected from loaded ammo I had purchased plus the odd quantity I've picked up at gun shows. It's quite possible the 'stuff' acquired at gun shows started out as a reloadable component.

I have a few boxes of new unprimed Norma 30-06 brass, none of which has a Re as part of the headstamp so this is one instance where it becomes a little confusing:confused:..

Similarily, I've recently purchased a 'quantity' on new Norma unprimed 358NM brass from Budget Shooter Supply, no Re as part of the head stamp. The confusion grows.

Last but not least, I've also purchased some new unprimed 7x61 S&H brass, and this doesn't have a Re stamp either. However, this isn't the earlier production 7x61 S&H but the newer 'improved' later production run designated 7x61 S&H Super.:confused: Again, no Re stamp.

On the topic of the twist rate info, where I got what I've posted is from an earlier edition of the Sierra reloading manual. There on Pg. 691 it states;
  • 308 Norma Magnum - 1 in 10" Musketeer; Schultz & Larsen
  • 308 Norma Magnum - 1 in 12" Browning; Husqvarna
I personally don't know but that's what info I was going with as to who produced or chambered for 308NM.

In the same manual, Pg. 692, the following is stated;
  • 358 Norma Magnum - 1 in 12" Husqvarna; Schultz & Larsen.
:redface:The more I hear;), the more confused I get:p.
 
Johnn - I believe there was a time when .308 and .358 Norma were available only as components. That was before these chamberings were available from the factory (only reamers made available). Perhaps that was the time they were marked "re".

Just a guess.
 
Yes I believe guns were available 5-6 years ahead of factory ammo which is why the .300 Win Mag flew and the Norma mag didn't.Stole their thunder........Off topic ,but does anyone remember the .220 Rocket/Weatherby made? A varmint gun on an improved .220 Swift case but never any ammo.........just not well thought, out BAD MARKETING.....gunsmiths across the land were lent out .308NM reamers and 30-06's were rechambered by the thousands but no ammo just brass...Harold
 
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1899 said:
Johnn - I believe there was a time when .308 and .358 Norma were available only as components. That was before these chamberings were available from the factory (only reamers made available). Perhaps that was the time they were marked "re".

Just a guess.
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That may well be, back when the initial rifles chambered in those calibers first hit the market. As I've mentioned, with the Norma '06, 308NM, 7x61 S&H 'Super' and 358NM unprimed brass I've recently acquired, none of it has the Re in the headstamp.

:)Good topic of discussion though.
 
mbogo3 said:
Yes I believe guns were available 5-6 years ahead of factory ammo which is why the .300 Win Mag flew and the Norma mag didn't.Stole their thunder........Off topic ,but does anyone remember the .220 Rocket/Weatherby made? A varmint gun on an improved .220 Swift case but never any ammo.........just not well thought, out BAD MARKETING.....gunsmiths across the land were lent out .308NM reamers and 30-06's were rechambered by the thousands but no ammo just brass...Harold
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I believe that 'follow the leader' tactic happened in a few instances. The 308NM became commercially available about 1960, followed by the 300WM in 1963. Prior to that, another similar occurance was the 7x61 S&H which came to be in 1953 I believe, and was then followed in 1962 by a very similar;) 'competitor', the 7mm Remington Magnum.
 
I'm sure that the "re" stamping was discontinued within about 4-5 years of the introduction of the chambering in 1960.
As for being on components only...I don't agree. The Ammo I bought was brand new Norma ammo from AB Norma Projectilfabrik in Amotfors, Sweden.
It came with the headstamping that included that little "re"
It was loaded with the dual-core bullet, but not the plastic tip...a conventional soft point in a mild steel jacket..
This stuff was loaded plenty warm from the factory. Speer checked some of this early ammo and reported in their reloading manual #8 that it churned up over 3100 fps in a 24" barrel.
The Norma spec was 76.7 grains of Norma 205 [Essentially identical to MRP]
Later they dropped down to 75 grains of MRP, and it has remained there to date.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
Remington executives were hunting with the inventor of the 7mm Mashburn magnum and after "looking" over his design came out with the 7mm Rem Mag.... low and behold ............no theft going on there........like the Ultra -mag series looks a lot like the Canadian made Imperial Magnum line........Harold
 
I recall reading that the "Re" stamp was to denote reloadable brass (ie: boxer primed as opposed to berdan primed, which a lot of European brass was back then). I also recall early proto fudds explaining to me that it meant ammo that had been reloaded, and was therefore untrustworthy. Being "gunny" in the 60's had it's own difficulties. - dan
 
mbogo3 said:
Remington executives were hunting with the inventor of the 7mm Mashburn magnum and after "looking" over his design came out with the 7mm Rem Mag.... low and behold ............no theft going on there........like the Ultra -mag series looks a lot like the Canadian made Imperial Magnum line........Harold
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As I understand it for the most part, while the Mashburn may have been somewhat of a guiding light for the 7mm Remington Magnum, it was at best still a wildcat at the time the 7x61 S&H became a commercial entity. And while it may well have acted as a stimulant for the development of the 7mm Rem, that commercial 'development' was still about nine years behind the 7x61 S&H.
 
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