308 vs 30-06

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I know that 30-06 has stronger recoil, it has a little bit better velocity and energy, there are more options for 30-06 reloading (can use heavier bullets) and for reloading 30-06 uses less powder. I also found that 30-06 has better ballistics than 308, but at the same time 308 is more accurate than 30-06. I have several questions:
* How big the difference in accuracy for different bullets (150, 165, 180, 200, 220)? Is it possible to reload 30-06 and achieve the same accuracy, or 308 will be better anyway?
* Is there real difference when using heavy bullets (180-220). Is 308 really worse than 30-06?
* Is it possible to kill grizzly quickly with 308 or 30-06? Has 30-06 much better than 308? (I do not plan hunt grizzly on purpose) On Federal Premium web-site (rifle load recommendations) couple loads offered for this purpose. Anybody tried them on grizzly?
* What kind of bullets do you use for deer hunting? I need recommendations for both 308 and 30-06. I need clean killing and the minimum meat waste.
Thanks.
 
I have only used 150 grain and 180 grain in .30-06. My .308 experience is largely confined to 7.62 Nato use, and occasional shots with friends hunting rifles. I found the 180 grain excellent for all round use in .30-06. There is little difference between the two, except the .30-06 is capable of being reloaded with heavier bullets and keeping decent velocities. It has more cartridge space for a variety of powders and loads.
I would not feel restricted if I was armed with a rifle in either calibre, but the edge for hunting would tip to the .30-06.
 
Barrel twist will have more to due with accuracy than which caliber you are using. Although 308's are inherently more accurate out of the box, that isn't always true & when it comes hand loading that theory falls even further away . The 308 gives up very little to the 30-06 up to at least a 180 gr. bullet. I wouldn't get rid of one to get the other thinking that you have gained exponentially in the other cartridge. The rifle & optics would have more to due with that.
I've never hunted Grizzly, only participated in a few defense threads...:D So I don't know if a 180 gr. bullet makes a Grizz any less dead than a 220 grain pill...
I've had great success with Nosler Partitions deer hunting, but I think any of the known bullet manufactures build quality bullets for deer hunting. Just have to find the ones that clover when loaded.
 
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The FPS and LB/FT are all within 200 + - of each other , at the end of the day it all boils down to shot placement , You can shot a moose in the ass with a 600 Nitro only to see him run ( not very far mind you ) or a heart shot with a 243 and see him drop ;)
 
Forgot to mention the twist rate of a barrel will be a major factor in how accurate a specific weight of bullet shot out of it will be. Velocity (powder charge) & how the cartridge is loaded & consistency in reloading will also play major role in accuracy. List goes on & on. Many more experienced reloaders than myself can chime in with particulars.
 
You can kill a grizzly with either one, with one well placed shot, using a decent big game hunting bullet.

The 30-06 gives you a little more case capacity, which translates into more room for powder and bullets seated into the case, but you are still talking about two cartriges that fill the same role in the same way. The difference between them is more for guys who like to crunch numbers than anything the game will notice.

As for accuracy, you'll find more variability between rifles of the same caliber than between these two calibers, IMO.
 
I have been to several nickel and dime gas stations from Iskut BC - Fort Providence NWT and sadly most points in between, you will always find :

30-06
308
303
7mm /300 Win Mag
22 lr
12 gauge

I have yet to find any 'designer' cartridges such as the 'wssm' line or Weatherby , just aheads up in case you run out of ammo on the road :)
 
In some reloading manuals you will find that the .308 usually equals the 3006 in lighter bullet weights ( 110 up to 165 grains ) When you get into the heavier bullet weights (175 grains+) is where the 3006 really shines because of it's case capacity, you can load longer bullets and load more powder than in the .308 case. My .308 will match my buddies 3006 at 100 yards for grouping, about 1.25 inches with 3 shots using my reloads developed for each rifle.

Some will argue that with the new bullet technology you can use a lighter bullet on big game so any difference between the two is really a moot point now. They could have a point there as I use the Winchester XP3's 150grain in my .308 for moose and regular 150grain soft points for deer. I have shot a deer but have not got a moose yet so I can't comment on how the XP3's work on moose yet, but the 150 soft point was plenty for deer.
 
+1 on the heavier bullets in .308. I could'nt get an accurate load in .308(better than 2"@100yds) with 180 gr bullets, but it's awesome with 165s.
I see my .308 as a heavy deer rifle/possible elk rifle with 165gr bullets, and my 30-06 as an elk/moose gun(I have a .300wm, so the 06 is more of my backup)
I much prefer to shoot the .308, and it's a lot easier to feed than the 06(it eats up the powder!)
 
I think he is talking more about bear defense than grizzly hunting. If I was buying a rifle specifically for griz defense I don't think any of these would be my first choice... If only there was some sort of bear defense thread we could refer to...:rolleyes:

:D

Jeff
 
crashcollins said:
In some reloading manuals you will find that the .308 usually equals the 3006 in lighter bullet weights ( 110 up to 165 grains ) When you get into the heavier bullet weights (175 grains+) is where the 3006 really shines because of it's case capacity, you can load longer bullets and load more powder than in the .308 case. My .308 will match my buddies 3006 at 100 yards for grouping, about 1.25 inches with 3 shots using my reloads developed for each rifle.
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What about 200-600 yards?
 
Power wise, there is not a big difference between the two. Both will be very effective on big guys like moose and both are over-kill on deer.

To reduce meat damage on deer, shoot a heavy bullet, like the 180 gr. That way you can use the same load on deer and bigger game.

The real big difference in the calibers is a long action vs a shorter action in most rifles. I prefer the shorter action, when available. The Remington 7600 pump being one of my favourite hunting rifles.

Both are similar in accuracy, with the big variable being the rifle to rifle variables, more so than the caliber.
 
The short version of the story was, I got home one day and was bringing groceries in the door. On my next trip out to the truck to get another armful, I heard some clicking and snorting for lack of a better word.

I waited 10 minutes after the bear 'left' and proceeded into the house to set the other groceries in.

As I turned towards the open door, the grizz was damn near coming in the door! She was loping past the apple tree, making a beeline for the house.

Being rural I am allowed by law in BC to have a gun and ammunition handy, so I jacked a round in, sighted and pulled the trigger. I missed the first shot, but scored a skullcapper on the second.
Being left handed I did not quite have enough time to properly seat my rifle, and... I am ashamed to say, that after 20plus years of shooting, I scoped myself in the nose.

You live in the country, you learn to deal with things. I did get into trouble with the fishcops for NOT reporting it... jeez, I lived it died big deal right?> Well , lesson learned. A nice big fat fine later, and still hurting like a SOB, I took my lumps that day.
 
Ganderite said:
Power wise, there is not a big difference between the two. Both will be very effective on big guys like moose and both are over-kill on deer.

To reduce meat damage on deer, shoot a heavy bullet, like the 180 gr. That way you can use the same load on deer and bigger game.
Click to expand...

I thought that heavy bullets will damage more meat.
 
I thought that heavy bullets will damage more meat.
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No, its the other way around.

All else being equal, a heavier bullet penetrates better, leaves a slightly smaller wound cavity due to lower velocity, and damages meat less.


And if you're asking these questions - it's probably too soon to worry about 600 yard shots :D

Here's a good rule of thumb - the 308 does every single thing the 30-06 does to an animal at 20 - 40 yards more. In other words - shoot a 1200 lb moose at 200 yards with a 308, and with the same bullet at 230 yards with a 30-06, and the results would be so close to identical it really wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Nothing walking in north america can take the kind of pounding either gun will dish out properly loaded. I personally like the 30-06 because i like a slightly heavier bullet but to be clear that's more to do with personal preference. Both will kill moose stone dead out to 300 without blinking as long as you make a decent shot (and nothing will kill them if you don't) and frankly, that's long enough for damn near any hunting you're likely to do. The vast vast majority of kills are within 150 yards. Longest i ever shot at a moose was 250.


As for hunting - i use triple shocks. Puts the same sized hole in big animals and little animals, very lethal with minimal damage. Good penetration for weight. Load up some 150's in a 308 or 168's in a 30-06 and everything within 300 yards lives at your sufferance if you practice.

Remember - accuracy kills more than cartridge. Practice practice practice with your new gun till you're just that good and it won't matter what gun you get. Doesn't take long, just get out there and do it.
 
Foxer said:
No, its the other way around.

All else being equal, a heavier bullet penetrates better, leaves a slightly smaller wound cavity due to lower velocity, and damages meat less.


And if you're asking these questions - it's probably too soon to worry about 600 yard shots :D

Here's a good rule of thumb - the 308 does every single thing the 30-06 does to an animal at 20 - 40 yards more. In other words - shoot a 1200 lb moose at 200 yards with a 308, and with the same bullet at 230 yards with a 30-06, and the results would be so close to identical it really wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Nothing walking in north america can take the kind of pounding either gun will dish out properly loaded. I personally like the 30-06 because i like a slightly heavier bullet but to be clear that's more to do with personal preference. Both will kill moose stone dead out to 300 without blinking as long as you make a decent shot (and nothing will kill them if you don't) and frankly, that's long enough for damn near any hunting you're likely to do. The vast vast majority of kills are within 150 yards. Longest i ever shot at a moose was 250.


As for hunting - i use triple shocks. Puts the same sized hole in big animals and little animals, very lethal with minimal damage. Good penetration for weight. Load up some 150's in a 308 or 168's in a 30-06 and everything within 300 yards lives at your sufferance if you practice.

Remember - accuracy kills more than cartridge. Practice practice practice with your new gun till you're just that good and it won't matter what gun you get. Doesn't take long, just get out there and do it.
Click to expand...

In that case it is better to use 180's in 30-06 and 308 for all games. It will save meat and ballistics I believe usually better. Why do you use 150's in a 308 and 168's in a 30-06?
 
either or

In my limited experiance and according to my extensive reading reading for hunting the killing ability and the shootability between the 398 and 30.06 are minimal.
When going to deer or moose camp, I bring one of each. When I am 'standing I use the long action, heavier 30.06 and when tasked as a dogger I carry the short action, shorter barreled and substantially lighter 308.
Both are sighted in with factory 180 grain nosler partiton ammo.
That way I don't have to make any mental allowances for the differant calibers out to 250 yards. W
hich is way farther than I am comfortable shooting at live critters. No judgement on those who wish to and can do shoot gane at more extreme distances.
So. like everyone else has said, the decisoin falls to you; depending on your choice of rifle characteristics, ammo characteristics and your shooting skills.
One or the other; you can comfortably hunt through out the country.
Just be safe and have fun hunting.
 
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