308 vs6.5 creedmore

To be fair arguing about ballistic coefficients, sectional density, hydrostatic shot, grizzlies and the big five when many of us are more likely to shoot a white tail at 75 yards in a pea field with a slug gun and see a black bear on that honey moon trip to Banff has been a CGN tradition for as long as I’ve been around and likely longer.

Dreaming is free; let everyone have their fun.

Most are lucky to spend a bit of time in the bush every year and get some good meat, I’m not one to begrudge them that; even though I do like poking the (eastern black) bear on occasion
 
conor_90 said:
^ guys on this forum convinced me to do that a long time ago! 270 and old SAKO rifles are something I picked up from this board

I miss the “ show off your X” threads for sure. But, folks want what they want; and if the market demands talk of 6.5’s and elephants instead of Mannlichers and Moose that’s what we get. No sense in complaining yet here I am :dancingbanana:
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Hahahaha. You and me both.

*shrug*

Cheap rifles that shoot MOA or better and efficient cartridges work for me lol. Still like classics just fine too. Theres room for all of em!

Just not inclined to argue about how its better than what anyone else likes. Don't much care. Kinda like the above-mentioned "arguing two so similar cartridges" lol.
 
“ in matters of taste there is no opinion”

Unless you like savages and rem 700’s and don’t care for the 338 win, then you are wrong. :dancingbanana:
 
conor_90 said:
“ in matters of taste there is no opinion”

Unless you like savages and rem 700’s and don’t care for the 338 win, then you are wrong. :dancingbanana:
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I love Savages and 700s and I built a rifle in 338 Win. I'm good to go.

Still gonna be waiting for the Ruger American everyone tells me is so bad to actually fail lol. Since deer clearly need a 30 cal to be killed I've moved up to a 300 Blackout. The discussion on 6.5 CM being underpowered for the job can continue haha.
 
dan belisle said:
Fan boy arguments, really. I could happily hunt for the rest of my days with a 100 year old Swede, or a 1903 Springfield, etc. It really wouldn't make much difference, either way. Hell, a rolling block close to a century and a half old would work too. Our arguments keep getting hewed down to finer and finer and finer differences to argue about. - dan
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That’s the metaphorical definition of having it too good in life, can argue about the little things. Something to celebrate, and Canadians’ national sport.
 
Ardent said:
That’s the metaphorical definition of having it too good in life, can argue about the little things. Something to celebrate, and Canadians’ national sport.
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Well, at least we are debating sensible gun / hunting related topics again. Thank God...I can handle pretentiousness about one's favored caliber / hunting discipline. Just no shots and clots and horse medicine.
What ever happened to CBMFI... I get that right? Great White Hunter...made hundreds of bears take dirt naps. I remember him being a bit pretentious, them he got pretty cool to read. So the member that one cannot stand? Well, events may swing and they may become entertaining.
It is a touch amazing how fast the 6.5 Manbun came to popularity...cool enough. I know of a woman from BC who shot one...that's about it in these parts. Flat out here, seems like we have longer arms too I suppose.
6.5 is a decent platform though...dad was rocking a Swede long before it was cool.
Ciao
 
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LOL oh boy lets not get that one going again ;)

6.5 CM is kinda just a much more common 6.5x55 to me. Always loved both! Woulda been just as happy for a Weatherby in 6.5x55 instead of the 6.5 CM but the dang things all over, in stores, and cheaper to load for with more components.

Don't care much about headstamps, rather more just like sending those bullets at about those speeds :) A 127gr LRX at about 2800-2850 FPS sounds just about right to me.
 
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Joel said:
LOL oh boy lets not get that one going again ;)

6.5 CM is kinda just a much more common 6.5x55 to me. Always loved both! Woulda been just as happy for a Weatherby in 6.5x55 instead of the 6.5 CM but the dang things all over, in stores, and cheaper to load for with more components.

Don't care much about headstamps, rather more just like sending those bullets at about those speeds :) A 127gr LRX at about 2800-2850 FPS sounds just about right to me.
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I even picked up a 6.5 MS in a Cooey - Carcano... which will undubiably be ridiculed ... best part is I am a bit more immune to that nonsense than I used to be. Arguing seems kinda silly anymore... no-one wins or loses or admits their mistakes...color me not involved in that bunk.
Better to just not be like that IMO.
Enjoy your rifles folks...be safe.
 
iron cat said:
Blakeyboy I never ever Said or even insinuated that " there are a lot of ELR shooters our there". I Said every good ELR shooter I know- and I know a few .
Cat
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It sounds like there’s a lot when you say ‘all the elr shooters I know’. Anyway, I’ve polled a forum full of these guys, a good crapload of them deeply immersed in prs with high dollar everything etc, so I already know the majority limit on game to 600 is well observed. I knew before I polled what to expect because I learned it on my own as well, so the poll was more of a set up. ;) it didn’t disappoint lol, Heck in a few states alone below us there’s more of them then all of a Canada. There will be a handful of studs in each bc, ab, and sask that’s about it. Actual consistent killers past 600. Then 10x that or more who shoot elr. How many of them have realized the difference between the two is a nother thing, many on their journey to discovery with false confidence no doubt. And up here the handfuls that can seem to be stuck in the big is only way, we tend to get a little Tim Allen up here and hang onto it a little longer than we should lol...south of border they are doing a ton with 7rm on down. Because the math is the math. The animals don’t need 250 gr bullets all of a sudden just because it’s 800+ yards. That’s just silly talk. A quick example to demonstrate is turn of last century standard 30-30 using 30 grains of powder and typical effective range 150 yards. Fast forward to now and 30 grains with a modern 123 gr 6.5 is triple the effective range of the 30-30. That sort of gain is easily achieved in cartridges that burn 40-65 grains of powder, up to 4x effective ranges. So if guys think they need to burn 70+ gr powder and 200+ Gr modern bullets then free world but that’s simply a choice, not a necessity at all. The exact same arguments we have in normal ranges apply to those ranges as the animals don’t armor up when past a certain distance. You can meet the formula with 108-170gr bullets and sub 70 gr powder now prob.

And for others on the elr derail, agree!, but that wasn’t me starting that! Rman must be laughing himself to death right now. Cat let’s get away from this lol, we understand it perfectly well. Another thread perhaps, this is all on Rman.
 
blakeyboy said:
It sounds like there’s a lot when you say ‘all the elr shooters I know’. Anyway, I’ve polled a forum full of these guys, a good crapload of them deeply immersed in prs with high dollar everything etc, so I already know the majority limit on game to 600 is well observed. I knew before I polled what to expect because I learned it on my own as well, so the poll was more of a set up. ;) it didn’t disappoint lol, Heck in a few states alone below us there’s more of them then all of a Canada. There will be a handful of studs in each bc, ab, and sask that’s about it. Actual consistent killers past 600. Then 10x that or more who shoot elr. How many of them have realized the difference between the two is a nother thing, many on their journey to discovery with false confidence no doubt. And up here the handfuls that can seem to be stuck in the big is only way, we tend to get a little Tim Allen up here and hang onto it a little longer than we should lol...south of border they are doing a ton with 7rm on down. Because the math is the math. The animals don’t need 250 gr bullets all of a sudden just because it’s 800+ yards. That’s just silly talk. A quick example to demonstrate is turn of last century standard 30-30 using 30 grains of powder and typical effective range 150 yards. Fast forward to now and 30 grains with a modern 123 gr 6.5 is triple the effective range of the 30-30. That sort of gain is easily achieved in cartridges that burn 40-65 grains of powder, up to 4x effective ranges. So if guys think they need to burn 70+ gr powder and 200+ Gr modern bullets then free world but that’s simply a choice, not a necessity at all. The exact same arguments we have in normal ranges apply to those ranges as the animals don’t armor up when past a certain distance. You can meet the formula with 108-170gr bullets and sub 70 gr powder now prob.
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When I said " All the ELR shooters I know", I meant it. Not some poll on a forum.
If you think for one second that small caliber bullet is a decent for an animal 800 yards and beyond rifle is silly talk, you have obviously no experience in shooting at extended distances on a regular basis , or what actually goes into putting a shot sequence together at those ranges.
I'm not talking about your 2MOA crap you are always spouting about either. Crap the bull for a Palma match rifle at 900 meters is only 2MOA for ! :p

Cat
 
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I had a few goat hunters who were practiced long range hunters. I judged it with the same eye I judge trad bow hunting, that is respectfully if they’ve put in the practice. They all without exception shot .300s for mountain hunting, mostly RUMs.

This is some of my own long range amusement, .308 Krieger’d M1 Garand with 173gr LC Match at 1000 yards, national match sights. You can only see the target board (6x6), the target is centered on it for amusement. We’ve shot 6mm, 7mm wildcats, 6.5s, .300s, .338, and even a 50 on that ‘range’ (abandoned airstrip). The best groups of a summer evening are all generally around 1.5MOA at 1000, four from this group with the iron sighted .308 comfortably went into that, though certainly not centered.

I know guys who can do better, but put irons on the 6.5 and I’ll be impressed to see it matched. Hell in the real world I’ll be impressed to see rounds on target even with glass at 1000. It’s harder than people think, and the cartridges never mattered it was the shooters that won the bottle of brandy. The guys I shoot with have good laughs about the creedmoor hype, but not the cartridge. It’s a good little round, as is the .308.

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iron cat said:
When I said " All the ELR shooters I know", I meant it. Not some poll on a forum.
If you think for one second that small caliber bullet is a decent for an animal 800 yards and beyond rifle is silly talk, you have obviously no experience in shooting at extended distances on a regular basis , or what actually goes into putting a shot sequence together at those ranges.
I'm not talking about your 2MOA crap you are always spouting about either. Crap the bull for a Palma match rifle at 900 meters is only 2MOA for ! :p

Cat
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you keep trying to turn it into something it's not, carry on, shoot to 600 in development, any test beyond that has been bang on, don't compete don't care, just hunt, like to push gear and ability limits at times closer to potentials, called out by buds who do it both, like you, and run with them neck and neck to 700 so far, my own tests to 930, no I don't shoot strings, in this instance as testing the only one that matters for a hunter, will easily get my butt kicked trying to do competitive target shooting, not so easy to kick my butt filling freezer and putting bone on the wall though, nice that you do it both and try to educate people the differences, I do one, shoot with the odd guy who does both, and talk to others who do both, don't like the info doesn't change same fact, you keep dodging the question to ask them what their hunting distances are where they actually play or actually consistently kill stuff and try to go after me because I don't shoot palma lol...silly talk, an appropriate bullet for game intended landing at appropriate velocities for game intended has nothing to do with its 'caliber', the animals don't all of a sudden require over 200 grain bullets once past a certain distance, the same 120-150's will work the same, add powder, get-r-done, argue it all you like but that would be with zero logic and fight losing battle, as it's actually being done, go argue that, try to stay on topic not deflect with some other weed off in the ditch
 
" the animals don't all of a sudden require over 200 grain bullets once past a certain distance, the same 120-150's will work the same"

I think of it the other way around. Once PAST a certain distance, the 120-150's won't be as effective as the heavier caliber 200's traveling at an appropriate velocity. I would shoot a Bison at 300 yards with my 300 Win Mag but I'll pass up the shot with my 6.5x55.
 
blakeyboy said:
you keep trying to turn it into something it's not, carry on, shoot to 600 in development, any test beyond that has been bang on, don't compete don't care, just hunt, like to push gear and ability limits at times closer to potentials, called out by buds who do it both, like you, and run with them neck and neck to 700 so far, my own tests to 930, no I don't shoot strings, in this instance as testing the only one that matters for a hunter, will easily get my butt kicked trying to do competitive target shooting, not so easy to kick my butt filling freezer and putting bone on the wall though, nice that you do it both and try to educate people the differences, I do one, shoot with the odd guy who does both, and talk to others who do both, don't like the info doesn't change same fact, you keep dodging the question to ask them what their hunting distances are where they actually play or actually consistently kill stuff and try to go after me because I don't shoot palma lol...silly talk, an appropriate bullet for game intended landing at appropriate velocities for game intended has nothing to do with its 'caliber', the animals don't all of a sudden require over 200 grain bullets once past a certain distance, the same 120-150's will work the same, add powder, get-r-done, argue it all you like but that would be with zero logic and fight losing battle, as it's actually being done, go argue that, try to stay on topic not deflect with some other weed off in the ditch
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Feeling persecuted? As has been shown throughout this thread, plenty of people are shooting and hunting at long range. Their experience doesn't always mirror yours. - dan
 
Blakelyboy until you actually know what you are talking about, quit throwing terms and things like stats, numbers and " math" around like you are experienced in that stuff.
We don't shoot strings up here in Canada for example, we shoot pairs.
As far as being called out, you are the one attempting the calling out , so maybe be quiet for once and you may just learn something constructive.
As I stated a long time ago in this thread, out to reasonable dustances either will kill quite well, but neither should be considered a long range big game cartridge.
But carry on with it if you choose.....
Cat
 
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I was contemplating grabbing another 7x57 in some form of military Mauser at the gun show this year, but, I really need to use a scope these days, and drilling and tapping and bolt handles talked me back out of it again. It was close though.
I have 2 6.5CM's, one will never see the bush most likely, one will, after using a 7-08 for 35 + yrs, I know it'll do what I need done. Went thru the magnum craze as well over the years, still have some, 7mm & 30cal, used the 300H&H last year and the year before for hunting, didn't need to, just wanted to. Done enough playing with wind and slower cartridges over the years, that I understand what a longer range shot requires, passed up a few, world didn't come to an end over it, also been a few times when I just got closer to close the deal. Also had to track down critters that were wounded by other folk, don't need that chit.
 
Well, we did get 43 pages out of it. Imagine a mod will wander over and give it the coupe de grace fairly soon.
Was entertaining enough in it's own way...now we are wiser as well.
 
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