.338 Ladder test-Scope checks out post #72

Kelly Timoffee said:
I likely will try switching scopes also.

If I cannot see any consistency with my next test I will do that , however and it may not be a concern, what if the larger recoiling rifle is causing a scope issue but the lighter recoiling rifle doesn't have the jam to re-create the problem?

I also do not believe anymore that it is a load issue as I am pretty damn careful and consistent when I load , I haven't even got into the once fired brass at this point , still have a few left of new, which will likely be used up now as I think I only have a handful left.

I honestly don't mind doing these little seek and destroy on issues as I enjoy problem solving and especially on rifles and loading but sometimes it makes you scratch your head.
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I did not read your post comPletely far too busy. Like others have said try the scope on a known good shooting rifle that's very good advice. Again sorry for not reading just so
Damn busy !
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
... what if the larger recoiling rifle is causing a scope issue but the lighter recoiling rifle doesn't have the jam to re-create the problem?
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While that's possible, there are a great many scope faults that will show up on both guns. If you can't shoot good groups (as good as you are accustomed to shooting) with the scope on your 7-08, it throws pretty heavy suspicion on your scope.

There's another angle you could take too. If you currently have a scope on your 7-08, which you have shot good groups with in the past, you could mount that scope on your .338. If your .338 grouping problems persist, it's likely that you have two good scopes.
 
Ok, well here is today's results.All 91gr powder charge , .012" and .030" jump.200 yards distance.

My actual targets did get a bit wrecked during the ride home so I transcribed the impact points onto new targets.

This is after bedding the rail, a super good cleaning, and check and re-check of all fasteners and even more care during the reloads.I know it isn't me as a buddy shot one group for me also and I did a 1" 3shot with my BLR @ 100 right after.

There isn't even any consistency or patterns showing up.
Here are the targets:









I will put the scope on my 7-08 with known loads that perform.

If the scope acts up then fine, if not I will tear down the chassis system and see if anything is moving.

If not, I will run my head directly into the wall, then have a nap!
 
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Im almost wondering why you mention that you super clean your rifle in a few posts, no need to clean that much after a couple rounds. Could be multiple things, like neck tension, how your measuring everything like Ogive, not OAL (its inconsistant cause bullets are all varing lengths), powder or bullet or primer selection. Assembling rounds can be a very tedious task on how good you want your ammo.
 
What is an Ogive?

Lead Loader said:
Im almost wondering why you mention that you super clean your rifle in a few posts, no need to clean that much after a couple rounds. Could be multiple things, like neck tension, how your measuring everything like Ogive, not OAL (its inconsistant cause bullets are all varing lengths), powder or bullet or primer selection. Assembling rounds can be a very tedious task on how good you want your ammo.
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I do all of my measurements using a comparator.

I amusing H1000 powder, Fed 215 primers, Lapua annealed brass, Lapua 300gr Scenars , Lyman primer pocket uniforming tool, Lyman VLD inner chamfer tool and RCBS outer chamfer tool and Redding dies.I sure hope I selected the right components ,maybe I am way off here.

The rifle was cleaned after purchase, @ approx 40 round and again @ approx 80-90 rounds, hardly excessive but I wanted to eliminate copper fouling and deposits as a possible cause of the inconsistencies.


Lead Loader said:
Im almost wondering why you mention that you super clean your rifle in a few posts, no need to clean that much after a couple rounds. Could be multiple things, like neck tension, how your measuring everything like Ogive, not OAL (its inconsistant cause bullets are all varing lengths), powder or bullet or primer selection. Assembling rounds can be a very tedious task on how good you want your ammo.
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I started loading for my 300RUM with H1000 and found pressures appeared inconsistent as did choreographed loads. I had better results with Retumbo. This was my rifle but I sold that H1000.and the retumbo works great.
Possibly try Retumbo or IMR 7828 as that powder seemed more consistent.
Neil
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
What is an Ogive?
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ogive, is the point that that bullet actually messures the full DIA , coming back from the tip. if that makes sense...

if your using a comparator, thats what your measuring off of

Kelly Timoffee said:
I amusing H1000 powder, Fed 215 primers, Lapua annealed brass, Lapua 300gr Scenars , Lyman primer pocket uniforming tool, Lyman VLD inner chamfer tool and RCBS outer chamfer tool and Redding dies.I sure hope I selected the right components ,maybe I am way off here.

sounds like you picked them right to me, in my 338, i actually had better luck useing retumbo over the h1000, but this lack of consistancy makes me think a switch wont help much

The rifle was cleaned after purchase, @ approx 40 round and again @ approx 80-90 rounds, hardly excessive but I wanted to eliminate copper fouling and deposits as a possible cause of the inconsistencies.

depending on what the barrel likes that might be to much cleaning, "some" copper fouling is a good thing, it gives the bullet a consistant surface to travel over when fired. for example, my curret 308, holds 3/4MOA from 0-70-80 rnds after cleaning, once im past that point it tightens up to sub 1/2 MOA and holds it, other then an oiled patch for storage, i have put 1245 rounds down the pipe and it been scrubed of copper at 450 and 950 rnds which are the 2 points my groups opened back up to 3/4moa and bigger
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The cleaning I don't see as an issue myself as I would get a good group,under 1" @ 200, load the same load, then go out the next time without cleaning and be all over hell's half acre with the target.

I sure hope it isn't optics, and the only other things I can look at is bedding, but many I have spoken to get wonderful results with this system without bedding.
 
Would also anneal those cases and try that same load, your gun seems to be shooting worse and worse could be the cases if they got a few firings on them, its happened to me a few times times. I use the socket in the drill method to hold the case and 450* temlaq applied to the just below the shoulder of the case, when it starts to melt its done.
 
All the brass to this point were new.

Believe me, I thought of that one too.I also use that method with annealing.



Republic of Alberta said:
Would also anneal those cases and try that same load, your gun seems to be shooting worse and worse could be the cases if they got a few firings on them, its happened to me a few times times. I use the socket in the drill method to hold the case and 450* temlaq applied to the just below the shoulder of the case, when it starts to melt its done.
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Here is the chassis system sans the action:

IMO it does look like the lug was tight against the chassis but the recoil was causing it to rub at the very top as you can see the finish removed.







As we speak the bedding compound is setting up.

My next course of action will be to put the scope on a known good shooter and see what happens.

If the scope is solid I will try with the bedded action , if that yields no improvements I will purchase SMK's as I know they will shoot strait even when flying out of my lawn mower.
 
Kelly, I've read lots of reports of H-1000 not giving good results with 300 gr. bullets....give Retumbo a try, might make a difference. 94 gr. of H-1000 works great in my savage with scenar 250's jammed but gave poor results with 300 accubonds. Just something to try! Good luck.
 
I don't have specific experience with the 338LM....but when woeking up loads for a brand new rifle with new cases I experienced much the same thing. I burnt up almost 100 bullets and got no where like groups 3-4". I switched powder and its a totally different animal. I see .75" quite often and yesterday I tried a new bullet 1 round at each charge weight just to check pressure and all 5 went into 1". Do yourself a favor and give a different powder a try, or bullet or both. It's a simple and easy test.

Willy
 
I am still convinced it is something I screwed up, I am famous for that.

Just one more test before I try new components.

wilbar said:
I don't have specific experience with the 338LM....but when woeking up loads for a brand new rifle with new cases I experienced much the same thing. I burnt up almost 100 bullets and got no where like groups 3-4". I switched powder and its a totally different animal. I see .75" quite often and yesterday I tried a new bullet 1 round at each charge weight just to check pressure and all 5 went into 1". Do yourself a favor and give a different powder a try, or bullet or both. It's a simple and easy test.

Willy
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Kelly your Internet friends can sure fill your plate up fast:

- "try another bullet", says one.
- "try another scope", says another.
- "try another powder", says still another.
- "check the bedding" / "bed it", says you.
- "try annealing case necks", says one more.

With "friends" like this, I sure hope you are enjoying the testing as much as the (hopefully!) good-shooting end product!!
 
I honestly don't mind trouble shooting and tinkering and testing, after all it will all wind up as experience and knowledge for me to refer to later.

I am however going to run out of time and fair weather as being in Saskatchewan, well you know! Weekends are the only time I can test , and that is if I am not working them either.Maybe a job at an ammunition manufacturer , do this all day long!

rnbra-shooter said:
Kelly your Internet friends can sure fill your plate up fast:

- "try another bullet", says one.
- "try another scope", says another.
- "try another powder", says still another.
- "check the bedding" / "bed it", says you.
- "try annealing case necks", says one more.

With "friends" like this, I sure hope you are enjoying the testing as much as the (hopefully!) good-shooting end product!!
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