Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
338 Win Mag vs 338 Lapua Mag
- Thread starter AlexF
- Start date
I can't even walk a mile. Surely you don't expect me to shoot a mile!
- Location
- central alberta
Found something very interesting and am considering buying a TRG-42:
"The Finnish Army found out during a test/trails program and 7 years of actual service that the barrels of their Sako TRG-42's lasted 4000 to 5000 rounds with Lapua Lock Base B408 factory ammunition before showing impermissible accuracy decay. The Finnish Army consistent accuracy requirement for these rifles is ≤ 1 MOA at 1000 m. If this requirement is not met the TRG-42 gets a new .338 Lapua Magnum barrel. This is normal practice for active high performance precision rifle operators who regard barrels as expendable items. The continuous use of very powerful handloads (which results in higher muzzle velocities) resulted in much quicker throat erosion reducing the TRG-42 barrels accuracy life to 1000 to 2000 rounds."
If 1 MOA is good enough for Finnish snipers, it's good enough for me,
Alex
"The Finnish Army found out during a test/trails program and 7 years of actual service that the barrels of their Sako TRG-42's lasted 4000 to 5000 rounds with Lapua Lock Base B408 factory ammunition before showing impermissible accuracy decay. The Finnish Army consistent accuracy requirement for these rifles is ≤ 1 MOA at 1000 m. If this requirement is not met the TRG-42 gets a new .338 Lapua Magnum barrel. This is normal practice for active high performance precision rifle operators who regard barrels as expendable items. The continuous use of very powerful handloads (which results in higher muzzle velocities) resulted in much quicker throat erosion reducing the TRG-42 barrels accuracy life to 1000 to 2000 rounds."
If 1 MOA is good enough for Finnish snipers, it's good enough for me,
Alex
how about NONE OF THE ABOVE- there is NO 338 that is cheap to shoot in referance to a 243, or 308 for that matter- ALL are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the 308 case in terms of both COST AND PERFORMANCE- a "typical " 308 round consists of a 150-180 grain bullet, 40-45 grains of powder and a cci magnum primer- the bullets you can get in bulk, so you can save a bit there- the 338( i don't care which variety) basically has dollar signs on every component - the bullets come only in boxes of 50- but they cost as much as 100 of 30 cal, even in boxes- the powder- 1) it's a LOT SLOWER and you need far more of it- typically at least 65-70 grains - that means you only get 100 rounds out of a pound, even if you don't spill ANY- even the cases are premium - again with the 50/100 thing
in short it typically costs you TWICE as much to fire one 338 round as it does one 308/243/284/ whatever - anything based on the 308 case- those figures i quoted are for the 338 WIN MAG, which is THE BOTTOM END OF THE 338 FAMILY- longer cases mean MORE powder, and you get even less rounds per pound
mightyhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
I have thought about getting a .338 LM for a long time.
Than I said to myself, do I want to drive an hour to the range and shoot 50 rds of .338 LM out to 700m(that's how far our range goes out to) or 250 rds of .308 for the same cost. I still don't have a .338.
Than I said to myself, do I want to drive an hour to the range and shoot 50 rds of .338 LM out to 700m(that's how far our range goes out to) or 250 rds of .308 for the same cost. I still don't have a .338.
I'm an engineer by profession and know very well how people love to overdrive systems by 10%-20% and then complain that life expectancy dropped by 50%.
Well, the truth is, there are simple answers, they just are not easy ones.
- Ronald Reagan
Alex
Well, the truth is, there are simple answers, they just are not easy ones.
- Ronald Reagan
Alex
+1. Everyone seems to think they will be getting 3000 fps, and I find that's not the case. I chrono'ed factory Lapua ammo (250 gr) from a 26" bbl Sako TRG-S and it gave me 2740 fps if memory serves. That puts it pretty much even with my 338 Win Mag (24" bbl Ruger 77). My best handloads beat that, to the tune of 2960 fps, but I get 2940 fps from my 340 Wby (26" gain twist bbl), all with the same bullets. I've also built or played with the 338-06, 338-06 AI, 338-08 (now the 338 Federal), 338-416 Rigby Improved, 338-378 Wby, 338 Abe Express, 338 Imperial Canadian Magnum, and probably some others I've forgotten. There is no free lunch. If you want to launch heavy 338 caliber bullets at higher speed, it will cost you, in components, rifle build costs, and recoil. At this stage of my shooting career, I'm not sure it's really worth it in ballistic terms. Probably only at the very top, ragged edge of LR shooting (and that would be the kind that starts around 1000 m and goes out from there). Out to 1000m, there are some kick ass 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm bullets out there right now. FWIW - dan
Lapua factory spec for GB488 250 Scenar is 2970fps and we have seen and are aware of many rifles matching or exceeding this. This is the first round developed as a sniper round and in this, has gained wide acceptance in the West. It exceeds the Win. .338 in all possible comparison, i.e., brass quality and design, velocity, quality control, accuracy and sorts(AP, API, FMJ, HPBT, sollid)
Regards from Lapua in Canada.
Regards from Lapua in Canada.
Maybe mine is just a slow barrel Peter. I know my handloads get close to what you say the spec is. All I can say about what I saw was, it is what it is. - dan
I suggest new chronos for those not obtaining close to factory specs with Lapua factory ammo. We know of literally 100s of thousands of rounds producing at about 3000 or more fps and none(O) factual data much below.
Of course we ain't no expurts nor are all the snipers of the Western world.
Time to get back to work.
Of course we ain't no expurts nor are all the snipers of the Western world.
Time to get back to work.
Lol, no offense meant Peter. Could be the gun, or maybe it was the ammo batch. One batch of ammo in one rifle does not a trend make, to paraphrase. Just stating what I've seen (so far). - dan
PB, This is taken from the Defensive Edge (hence the Edge in 338 EDGE) site. This is what Shawn is getting out of the 338 EDGE:
With the longer barrels we started running heavier bullets specifically the Sierra 300 gr. SMK. We can run the 300 SMK 2800-2950 fps depending on the load and individual rifle. What has become our standard load runs right at 2800-2830 fps. While you can run faster this load combo gave extreme velocity spreads of low teens and single digits. Also since we were using a Hodgen “extreme” powder when we tested temperature sensitivity we found it vary less than 30 fps from 20-90 degrees. No other combo we tested came close to this kind of consistency. From my position I will gladly give up 100 fps (or less) for this kind of performance.
Give me a couple months to get the rest of my parts and I'll post what I'm getting out of my EDGE!
With the longer barrels we started running heavier bullets specifically the Sierra 300 gr. SMK. We can run the 300 SMK 2800-2950 fps depending on the load and individual rifle. What has become our standard load runs right at 2800-2830 fps. While you can run faster this load combo gave extreme velocity spreads of low teens and single digits. Also since we were using a Hodgen “extreme” powder when we tested temperature sensitivity we found it vary less than 30 fps from 20-90 degrees. No other combo we tested came close to this kind of consistency. From my position I will gladly give up 100 fps (or less) for this kind of performance.
Give me a couple months to get the rest of my parts and I'll post what I'm getting out of my EDGE!
I own and have owned several 338Rums, 338Edges, and have some experience with the 338Lapua.
Your 3047fps load comes in at somewhere around 75Kpsi....Good thing your shooting a Remington is all I have to say about that.
Remington brass is sh1tt...There is no other way to say it.
I throw away somewhere near 20% of my cases...Still a good deal, but your time is worth something right?
The 338Lapua will hit 3000fps, but not at standard pressure it wont. A quick look at load data will tell you what is going on.
I have never fired factory ammo so I have no comment there.
The good news about the 338Lapua brass is it is good enough that it is not bothered by a little extra pressure...Frankly it is not bothered by a lot of extra pressure...More than I want to say!
I would NOT play that silly game in a Remington conversion or factory rifle.
Other than a cursory inspection I no longer bother to check Lapua brass...What for?
The Edge is interesting, but is not instant greased lightning...It aint that much bigger!
I like it, but there is that sh1t brass to deal with.
Ah Ha, and we come full circle to my 3050 fps, 300 SMK tack driving, low recoil, ULTRA high quality rig. Seems I made a fantastic choice. I never, ever considered the Edge. Glad for that. I believe the smith is reporting 15 - 18 reloads out of the Lapua brass. Hee hee hee. And all the armchair experts prattle on.............................I really must try a 250 one day and see how fast it will safely and effectively exit the barrel.
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The Edge will drive the 300SMk at 2950, but accuracy (long range) is nothing but bugholes at 2850ish fps.
If you want 300 grains at 3000fps and hair splitting accuracy you need to look at the 338L improved or another bigger case.
Call Shaun at 208-687-2659 and ask him for yourself.
Hes a great guy btw.
