35 Bullets

Takujualuk

Takujualuk

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Location
Whitehorse, Yukon
Despite a nagging bedding problem that is driving me crazy the 358 Norma Ruger has been a fine test bed for 35 caliber bullets. I have pretty much finished a test of 35's started a year ago and some people in this forum leant me bullets.

I only have Speer Grandslams left and will need to find more phone books as the hundred pounds I sterted with have been reduced to confettii


I especially concentrated on the 250 Speer as it has done a great job for moose hunters in the Yukon.

Following will be a summary of my findings.
 
The 200 Grainers:

322639.JPG


Here is a 200 Core-Lockt as tested in 1991. The Hornady spire point is very similar expanding a bit less and penetrating a bit more. The mechanical core locking device on both these bullets works up to 2650 or so most of the time. Both bullets have fairly thick jackets with not much taper at the opening. this means that they open up fairly slowly and don't have the quick expansion properties that result in quick kills. They appear designed for 35 Whelan and 350 Rem mag users that want a light weight bullet suitable for all round use.

They penetrate well but not as well as a heavier bullet, they don't expand quickly enough to make a difference in knocking over a caribou. In fact I left a number of seals dead in the water because these bullets don't shock enough to keep them from sliding down their holes once struck.
Speeded up to 3000ft/sec in the Norma they shed their cores every time.

I think there are much better choices than these two bullets.

The 200 X bullet semed to be discontinued but was agood bullet. It penetarted as well as a 225 Nosler partition and expands down to 1900ft/sec.

200 grain RN's expand quickly and are fast killers on light game at Norm velocities but have very limited penetration. Ck out the study on 35 Rem bullets at Marlin talk as I can't compete. I did spend time with Sierras and they are like bombs at 2400+ ft/sec.

NEXT UP The Useful 225's
The Bulk Of The Study 250's
Two heavyweights the 275 hawk and the 300 Barnes O
 
The Useful 225's

Two Core Shedding Ba*ta#ds:

322619.JPG


The Nosler Ballistic Tip and Sierra in 225 grain are sleek and accurate bullets. The Nosler has a very thick jacket and launches it's core at a drop of the hat. It is also so long that it wion't work in a deep seating application as in the 350 Rem Mag. The Sierra has a thinner jacket and can support an 80 caliber mushroom when every thing is just right. Outside of a very narrow velocity range it over expands and separates (2400+) or when impacting at 2200 and under it often underexpands and the core squirts out as well. Seems like when there is a lot of shank left the core departs. Good for deer only in my opinion and as the Sierra has limited expansion at under 2100ft/sec I am not sure it is even suitable there.

Two Beauties:

the 225 Nosler Partition stays together at up to a tested 3000ft/sec. It also expands at 1800. It is short enough to get everything out of the 350 Rem Mag and penetrates abouts as well as the 250 Speer and Hornady. In 358 Norma it is accurate, flat shooting and hits hard. A good minimum choice for Moose.

The 225 barnes X ( I tested the Blue one) also hangs together at 3000ft/sec and was very accurate in 350 Rem Mag less so in 358 Norma. It expands to 1900ft/sec or so and penetrates as well as the 250 Nosler. An excellent choice in a fast stepping case size.
 
The Heavy Weights:

322617.JPG


the 225 X acts like a heavy weight so I put it here. The 358 Norma seems to be at it's best with 250 grain bullets. 2800ft/sec is a very reachable goal eeven in a 22" barrel though I found the best accuract at 2650-2700ft/sec. Recoil in a 7 pound rifle is rigorous and I found the bedding would let go in 20-40 rounds. I'll be working on reinforcements.

250 Hornady (not pictured) I had a few of these left and the jackets seem a bit brittle. they would often tear down past the interlock and separate at 2500+ A good bullet in the Rem Mag or Whelan not quite enough for the Norma.

250 Speer Hot Core: I haven't had much luck with the hot core in other calibers but this is a good one. stays together at 2650 and starts to separate out at 2700. tends to form a ball and penetrates as well or better than the Nosler partition in this weight. Interestingly enough they again begin to separate when laoded down to 2200 or so. Why? I have no idea but again suspect shank length and stress along the bullet axis as the bullet wobbles in media. Bonded this would be a honey. As is it is a pretty good choice and I have to be careful as Ted Loves it.

250 Nosler partition: Tough like every partition this bullet often tumbles in media as it keeps a long shank. This limits it's penetration. Would this happen in animal tissue as well as wet paper? I don't know.

250 North Fork: best penetration of the test... staying together at high speed and expanding down to 1800 at least. I only had a limited supply but this is a fantastic bullet.

250 Barnes Original (discontinued) Tough jacket but it core separates at high speed and doesn't expand much at less than 2000ft/sec. Not as good as the Speer

275 Hawks: Forget what you have read about these bullets. The core separate limiting penetration at anything past 2300ft/sec. Not as good as the inexpensive Speer.

300 Barnes Original (.049 Jacket). (discontinues) Tie with the 250 North Fork for penetration they stay together to 2500 which is as fast as I pushed them. Expand down to 1900ft sec but not much less than this. A fine close range blaster for Bison.
 
Thanks for the interesting info, I have a 35 Whelen A.I. and all that I have taken with it so far is a whitetail doe. I used a Rem 200 gr PSP at a range of about 60 yards and it worked great, she only went about 10 yards and expired. Good to see some info on 35 cal bullets for a change.
 
I appreciate your testing efforts.
I've "assisted" with one black bear with my 35 whelen on an FN action, using 250 Hornady Spire Points. Retained weight was down around 50% and while the core didn't separate in the animal, it did when dug out!(bullet went in the base of the neck, and didn't exit)
Based on that experience, and the fact that Ted is a big fan of the 250 Speer ( and also has lots of experience with it!), I'll be using that in my rifle, assuming it will shoot good. That one, or the 250 Nosler, will be my go to bullets as they are both proven and fairly easy to get.
BTW, I'm getting 2550 with 250 Hornady's out of a 22" bbl and recoil with a Bansner stock is about like a 7 Mag, definitely tolerable. We had a couple of teenage boys shooting it without a problem. Definitely my rifle of choice for large game where ranges are not extreme.
Pat
 
I have shot a lot of moose with my 358 Norma and the 250 Speer Hot Core,they work as well as many bullets costing 3 times as much.I drive mine at 2850 and have never had a core seperate.
 
Takujualuk said:
... 250 North Fork: best penetration of the test... staying together at high speed and expanding down to 1800 at least. I only had a limited supply but this is a fantastic bullet......
Click to expand...

First report I've heard on these from a Canadian source (I don't think they have any Cdn. distribution) but they seem to be an excellent product. A contributor to African Hunter Mag. used them in his .416 on a Cape Buffalo and was suitably impressed.

Another premium bullet is the Woodleigh from Australia. They do a 225, 250 and 310gr in .358 and are apparently avail. from www.accuracyplus.biz in Ontario, although they don't mention them on their website.

:) Stuart
 
I received a limited supply of North Forks from a fellow forumite. They look like jewels incredibly well made with very sophisticated details like the multiple relief cuts to reduce bearing surface and a very effective taper to promote low speed expansion and support a good mushroom.

Fantastic bullet but too pricey and hard to get for my blood.
 
Excellent info... I have used the Hornady 200 gr in 350 RemMag and Whelan and was happy - good accuracy - the 225 Gr Nosler Part. has excellent penetration but at closer ranges doesn't open up too quickly. The factory Coreloks seem to work fine in both cartridges so I never feel disadvantaged on deer sized game if I use these. Would be very interested in your testing of the Grandslams.... I have picked up various boxes (375H&H etc ) over the years but never really tried them properly... was always a "future project"...I wonder if they work as well as they are promoted? thanks again -- great stuff! AP
 
Well done on the testing. I have had great results so far with the Speer 250 Hotcore and the 225 TSX in my 35 Whelen. Took a nice sized bull moose a few weeks ago with the 250 Speer at 2550fps @ 251yds. Very impressed with this bullet!

I have a box of Grand Slams on my bench, but have only shot a few groups with them (not nearly as accuarate in my rifle as the 225 TSX and 250 Hotcores). My experience with Grand Slams show them to be VERY deadly penetrators... interested to see how they perform in your phonebooks.

Thanks for the results.... keep 'em coming

280_ACKLEY
 
I have used the 200 gr Hornady Sptz and the Remington PSPCL in the 35 Rem and the 350 RM, both rifles are bolt actions and the heaviest game taken is whitetail deer. I have never recovered any bullets thus far they have passed through in 6 deer taken thus far. Naturally no data on remaining weights etc. In my experience they are excellent for deer.
bigbull
 
In the late 80's early 90's I took a lot of caribou & seals with the 200 Rem and 200 Hornady at 350 Rem Mag Speeds (2650-2750ft/sec). They penetrated very well but didn't have the quick smashing expansion of 150 grainers at the same speed in my .308.

I was disapointed that recoil was up and killing power was seemingly down. Sectioned these relatively light 35's have much thicker jackets than 308's of a similar SD.
 
Takujualak,
It's interesting that your tests show the 250g hot-cor seperating at low velocities. I shot a bull elk at about 250yds with my whelen and,...... you guessed it the core completely seperated although it did penetrate completely leaving about a 2" hole right through both lungs. We found the jacket when we were loading him in the truck and it fell out in the box. I figured I had hit a branch before impact, but I guess it was the low velocity, probably impacted at around 2050 fps or so.

Thanks for the great report, Homesteader
 
I have reproduced it many times with the Speer so I know it can happen. The Gary Sciuchetti study of 180 grain bullets at 1400-3000ft/sec show many of the simple cup and core bullets staying together at higher speeds but separating at lower speeds.

Example Speer Spitzer 308/180 grain stays together at 2800/ but sometimes separates at 1900/2100 and 2300ft/sec. However this doesn't reduce penetration so must happen near the end of travel and maybe it doesn't matter that much.

Sierras, Ballistic Tips Rem CL and Hawk bullets also demonstrated low velocity separations all with a fairly weak correlation with reduced penetration.
 
The Grand Slam tests should be interesting, when I bought my 35 Whelen I read a few articles on the net saying that they don't get good expansion at Whelen velocities. I never bothered trying them for that reason, whether it is true or not maybe your testing will tell. Has anybody else tried them in a 35 Whelen?
 
I shoot a BLR in 358 Win(Sierra 225gr) and a 7600 in 35 Whelen(Hornady 250gr sp) and I manage to take my share of Moose and Elk. The animals always die on the spot after one or two hits and I've never only wounded one. The bullets sometimes come apart, sometimes hold together and the animal is always dead.
Did the bullet fail?
The animal died, so IMHO the bullet did it's job, whether I found it in one piece or several.
However, the bullet cannot effectively do it's job if it is poorly shot and that is shooter failure not bullet failure.
John
 
Johnny: I take your point..if the separation happens at or near the end of travel and penetration and wound channel has been sufficient maybe it is only an asthetic issue.

My favourite caribou bullet in 6.5 Rem mag is the 120 Sierra and it often separates. It has also achieved about 2 dozen 1- shot caribou kills in a row. A lot of those kills have demonstrated a "hooves in the air " effect.
 
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