35 Whelen AI ???

Charlie38

Charlie38

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Northwest (Prince Rupert), BC
I have an extremely accurate custom Parker/Hale 35 Whelen in a Bell and Carlson stock and a 24" match grade Shilen barrel.
I am toying with the idea of having it re chambered to 35 Whelen AI. I am having trouble finding any reloading data on the cartridge. I would like to know if it is worth it. How fast can I get a 225 or 250 gr. Partition out of it ?
I am getting 2700fps-225 & 2500fps-250 already.
Is there a book out on Ackley cartridges?
 
Take a look at 35cal.com

He has both and you can make a direct comparison. There have been numerous posts of the amazing results using RL17 in the .35 Whelen. I'm talking 2600-2700fps with a 250gr bullet.

I'd just leave it the way it is.
 
bjamieson said:
I have not owned one but you can expect 150-200 fps more. Google it and you'll find lots of info.
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Not even close - more like 50-75 fps, unless you jack the pressure up.

I have one and with the same 24" barrel I get 2550 fps with 60.0 grs of RL-15 and 2600 fps with 66.0 grs of RL-17.

If it's very accurate, I can't think of any good reason to spend the time and money (rechambering and new dies) for such as small increase, and risk losing accuracy. Unlikely, but possible, depending on the reamer.
 
if its accurate i wouldn't mess with it for another 75 to 100fps. i have found rechambering factory barrels to ai often has improved accuracy. i'm thinking its because the barrel is set back and the chamber is more uniform and headspace is set to minimum specs. in your rifle i'm not sure rechamber would be an improvement.
 
It gets 3/4" three shot groups @ 200 yds with 225 gr. Accubonds @ 2700fps if I do my part, thats why I am a little hesitant to screw with it.
I do have a shot out 300 H&H Mag in a Remington 700 in a HS Precision stock that needs a new barrel..... Maybe in 358 Norma ??? You just re-size 338 Win Mag brass right ??? I have over 1500 various 35 caliber bullets , mostly 250's so a big 35 of some kind would make sense.
I also have a steel BLR in 358 Win :D, sold my 350 Rem Mag Model 7 - the Parker/Hale kicks its ass.
 
A 35 Whelen AI is by far the dumbest, I repeat, the dumbest idea in Ackley Improved history. It cannot produce more than a 1% increase in velocity due to the fact that it creates less than 4% more powder capacity. That means you velocity gain would be less than 50fps with any bullet weight.
Barsness has a wonderful mathematical equation for giving you the increase in velocity for powder capacity vs bore size. And so on. Basically take the percentage increase in powder capacity of the cartridge gained by blowing it out and divide it by 4. Then take that percentage and add it to the original velocity of the un-improved cartridge and you have your velocity gain.
Barsness tested this theory with Charlie Sisk's pressure equipment and found it infallible.
So in short, those guys are getting their increase in velocity through raising the pressure from 60000psi to 70000psi, not magic by adding some powder capacity.
So don't wreck your Whelen for 30fps.
 
Charlie38 said:
I do have a shot out 300 H&H Mag in a Remington 700 in a HS Precision stock that needs a new barrel..... Maybe in 358 Norma ??? You just re-size 338 Win Mag brass right ??? I have over 1500 various 35 caliber bullets , mostly 250's so a big 35 of some kind would make sense.
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It is already set up for full length magnum so why not a .358 STA?
 
I went thru the same thing with my custom 98 with a 25" bbl in 35 Whelen.I shoot a 250 gr at 2500 fps with IMR 4320,With this load I have shot alot of game and never had to look for anything.
I still have the standard 35 Whelen.
 
Charlie38 said:
It gets 3/4" three shot groups @ 200 yds with 225 gr. Accubonds @ 2700fps if I do my part, thats why I am a little hesitant to screw with it.
I do have a shot out 300 H&H Mag in a Remington 700 in a HS Precision stock that needs a new barrel..... Maybe in 358 Norma ??? You just re-size 338 Win Mag brass right ??? I have over 1500 various 35 caliber bullets , mostly 250's so a big 35 of some kind would make sense.
I also have a steel BLR in 358 Win :D, sold my 350 Rem Mag Model 7 - the Parker/Hale kicks its ass.
Click to expand...

Why mess with that, for a 35 Whelen I dont think you can do much better
 
Like you have already read, if its accurate, leave it be. The extra 100fps, (possibly) wouldnt make a crap of a difference in my head.
I use a bunch of 358win's and a 358Norma for my 35's. The "between" is the Whelen, which cannot be either, if it is to be fed a balanced diet.
 
Charlie38 - I like my 35 Whelen AI and value the increase in velocity for stretching my moose hunting ranges somewhat. Modest gains is a good way to describe the increases available. Arguments can be made as to what that might mean but I consider them significant and worthwhile myself. At this point in time I do not believe in Barsness' infallible rule as mentioned above - though I must look at it more closely one day. But I do load for alot of different standard 35Whelens too so I have a bit of experience with both flavours over a chrony and comparative measuring for case head expansion.

However, your Parker Hale seems almost perfect as it is and your velocities are book perfect too. I'd hesitate to recut that chamber unless a problem arose. Maybe consider a new AI project using a donor action with a 3.400" long mag box - properly throated to seat out your bullet of choice? A new project is always fun.

Regards.
 
Whelen B said:
....At this point in time I do not believe in Barsness' infallible rule as mentioned above - though I must look at it more closely one day.....
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I don't consider it "infallible" and neither would Barsness. He looked at large numbers of pressure tested loads and observed a relationship between case size, MV, and pressure. The data seemed to support a ratio of about 1:4. This debunked the belief that if you increase case capacity by 10%, you can attain 10% higher MV's at the same pressure - it has been shown that it is more like a 2.5% +/- increase in MV.

I think it's a good rule-of-thumb that can keep reloading efforts this side of sane, and is another reason to own a chrony. It won't stop the guy who "improves" his 30/06 by adding 5 grs of case capacity, and suddenly it's a 300 Win Mag - "but there are no pressure signs!", but the sensible and thoughtful types can use it to develop loads.
 
I have a Whelen AI and love it. The only reason I have the AI is that it was built for me. The build, and care and feeding is exactly the same cost as a regular Whelen, so why not? If I had a fine shooting standard Whelen to start with, I would consider it a waste of rescources to convert it to the Improved version.
 
Really I can push my 130gr bullets in my .270 WCF to 3200fps buy riding 5 thou expansion and getting my cases to split at 4 reloads too if I want. Just means I am at 70000psi instead of the 62000psi I should be. Brass isn't a consistent variable to be measuring pressure by either. If it was the bullet manufacturers never would have invested in peizo and other types of pressure testing equipment. If you are hugging 2550fps with a 24"bbl 35 Whelen AI, reality says you are at 60000psi-ish and you should likely stop.
But who is reality to step in the way of magic, huh?
Why is it alway 35 Whelen fans that want to shove Tinkerbell in a case to make it a .338 :evil:
 
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