35 Whelen VS 444 Marlin.

Which one should I KEEP???

  • Keep the 35 Whelen!

    Votes: 81 52.3%

  • Keep the 444 Marlin!!

    Votes: 21 13.5%

  • KEEP THEM BOTH!!!

    Votes: 53 34.2%
  • Total voters
    155
Slamfire said:
Nope. I go heavier using 500gr bullets in my .458 WM and have killed Moose standing in thickets. No issues.
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Good to hear :)

So back to the similar weight bullets with a diameter difference of .071" debate. How is the 444 a better "brush buster" than the Whelen?
 
I've shot a 444 Marlin, my brother's, and I own 45-70s and 30-06s, notice the plural on both, but I've only lusted after the 35 Whelen, Remington dropped it from the Model 700 before I could come up with the dollars.

So I'm firmly in the 35 Whelen crowd. Greater bullet selection and better ballistics once past 50 yards.
 
Slamfire said:
Hunting in timber ranges the 300gr .444 bullet has more momentum than a 250gr .358 bullet, and the 250gr .358 bullet is going faster so is more susceptible to deflection.
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Fair enough,

How about a 310gr in the Whelen vs a 300gr in the 444 then? Does that still hold true?

I'm honestly not looking to argue, just curious how a similar weight bullet with a higher SD could possibly be less effective in the brush. I like both and shoot both. I think any brush advantage would stem from the rifle platform not the chambering.
 
I'm a .44 fan so I'll throw in a vote for the .444 simply because I can run the same 240gr SWC bullets in 44R 44Spl 44mag 444M.

I won't try to claim any performance advantage or such to justify my vote because there isn't one.

I'm partial to lever guns and I like my .444
 
In matching gr bullets either cartridge would be comparable in the bush. Deflection is a possibility with either.
The whelen with more fps and reaching out much flatter/ further gives it the edge.
 
GMC403 said:
Fair enough,

How about a 310gr in the Whelen vs a 300gr in the 444 then? Does that still hold true?

I'm honestly not looking to argue, just curious how a similar weight bullet with a higher SD could possibly be less effective in the brush. I like both and shoot both. I think any brush advantage would stem from the rifle platform not the chambering.
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Sure, adjusting the variables will change things. I like to go heavier as I prefer the 310gr 35 caliber Woodleigh bullet except my 1:16 twist Remington 700 CDL 35 Whelen won't properly stabilize these. But my 1:12 twist .350 Rem. Mag. and .358 Winchester will.
 
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Wasn't Jack O'Connor disproving the deflection stuff half a century ago? Can't believe we are still on this.

Just because something is slow and heavy doesn't mean it's immune to physics.
 
Most authorities have concluded that a large caliber bullet of great sectional density gets through brush the best. Cartridges like the .458 Winchester Magnum are frequent winners...

Jack O'Connor, in his Gun Book wrote about the results of such a test that he spent several afternoons conducting with a variety of calibers and bullet weights. O'Connor shot at a 3' by 4' outline of a deer through a heavy screen of natural brush. His results indicated several things. One was that, as logic suggests, the farther behind the brush the target was placed, the safer it was. At 6' the "deer" was liable to be hit; at 20' the "deer" was pretty safe.

O'Connor tested a variety of calibers from the .220 Swift to the .375 H&H Magnum, including the standard one ounce 12 gauge shotgun slug. This latter projectile proved to the best brush-bucker of them all...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/woods_rifles.htm
 
I've owned both and I ditched the whelen, not bevause i found it inferior but because i was presented with a similar scenario and i felt the .444 covered an area in my arsenal the whelen could not. A short range compact slugger. Not saying that bends the laws of physics, but in a short range scenario, I feel I can react better with the marlin over a bolt action.

Another thing to consider is where there are moose and elk, there are big bears. Not saying the whelen could not do it, or that either are an optimal cartridge for Mr grizzly, but if I had a choice, the 444 would be the one for me.

On the downside, 444 is becoming somewhat of an uncommon cartridge especially when looking for ammunition. Mind you, I've got 17 boxes of 240 grain for my .444 so I'm not concerned in that aspect.

I'd own another Whelen, but I will always own a 444.:dancingbanana:
 
Slamfire said:
Most authorities have concluded that a large caliber bullet of great sectional density gets through brush the best. Cartridges like the .458 Winchester Magnum are frequent winners...

Jack O'Connor, in his Gun Book wrote about the results of such a test that he spent several afternoons conducting with a variety of calibers and bullet weights. O'Connor shot at a 3' by 4' outline of a deer through a heavy screen of natural brush. His results indicated several things. One was that, as logic suggests, the farther behind the brush the target was placed, the safer it was. At 6' the "deer" was liable to be hit; at 20' the "deer" was pretty safe.

O'Connor tested a variety of calibers from the .220 Swift to the .375 H&H Magnum, including the standard one ounce 12 gauge shotgun slug. This latter projectile proved to the best brush-bucker of them all...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/woods_rifles.htm
Click to expand...


"Liable to be hit" and a direct shot to the boiler room are two very different things.......
 
I shoot 225gr TSX in my Whelen and I only shoot 300gr jacketed bullet (Hornady XTP or Speer UC)or 325gr cast bullet in my .444 Marlin. I don't see them in the same "class".
 
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