356 Win

CH_Tiger_14

CH_Tiger_14

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Location
Miramichi, NB
Anyone use 1 of these? Any opinions? I had a chance to buy 1 a few years back but I passed on it - what an idiot.

What are the pro's and con's for the cartridge? How does it perform?

I absolutely luv the look of the Win 94 big bores - one day I'll have both a 356 and a 307 - just because. And just for curiosity sake, what type of performance gains can be made by handloading? The factory 307 MV is 2510 fps (180 gr) and the 356 is 2460 fps (200 gr).


Thanx.
 
My understanding of the 307 and 356 cartridge was that these are simply rimmed versions of the 308 and 358 cartridges. If that is the "case" then the 356 would be well suited for a bush gun and for game out to 200-250 yards or so(most Deer hunting).

Only problem I can see is getting either ammo or brass. I haven't seen much of it around but then again I'm not looking for it either.
 
hey
ive shot a model 94 in 356 its an awsome rifle and a good cartridge i don't know why you would pass one up its better than the 307 by far and you can use heavier bullets which makes it better for moose but its a moderate range cartridge and it comes in the angle eject model 94's so you can probably improve performance slightly but i wouldnt really make them too hot because the 94 action can only take so much pressure so be compitent and know what your doing.but if you get the chance again do not pass it up you can legitimately take anything in canada with that rifle only if your compitent with the range and you know your loads well but keep in mind they are flat point bullets for the tube magazine so range will now be the same as the rimless 358
 
had to pass at the time for $$ reasons - thought twins were on the way.

like I said earlier, one day I'll own both - just because.

saw a 307 in the local shop recently for $400 tax included. it was near mint condition. settled for a win m70 30-06 for $500 instead (only had half-a-dozen rounds thru it).
 
I just bought a Winchester Big Bore in 356 but haven't had a chance to try it yet. With only 1 factory load available it is definitely a handloader's cartridge 8) .
 
I have a model 94 in 356 with AO ghostring sights on it. I love it.

It is a ballistic twin to the 358 win even using the same dies.

You used to be able to get 250 gr loads from Winchester, I still have a box of factory 250' for mine.
Its definately a great carrying gun, nearly 1 lb lighter than my guide gun, and a much slimmer profile.
Most of the 356's are built on Forged actions. (The XTR action) they are pretty tough on their own.
And BTW Deadeye, the 307 is the near ballistic twin to the 308 winchester so really, there is not too much difference between the two.
I was looking at a 35 rem pump Model 760 on the weekend that would have been the perfect rechamber project, but sadly, the price was not clost to what I would have paid for it.
Sadly, its no longer available, but one of the best chamberings in a 336/model 94 platform IMHO.
 
Tiger,

I have owned and shot a 94 XTR BiG Bore since about 1992 and absolutely love it. I have never understood why the cartridge never took off. The secret to this caliber is definately using RELOADS. Using a factory 220 or 200 grainers is uninspiring.... But use 180 Grain Speer FN with CCI primers, 46 grain of IMR3031 (max Load).... this gun shoots (with irons) 1.5" groups for me free hand/light support at 50 yards!!! At 100 yards the groups are 1.5"-3" EASY. It shoots similar to a slightly loaded up .308. It definately gives a nice thump to the shoulder too.

For a while it was a ##### to get brass, however now I got an easy new supply of WW brass @ $28 per 50. So I have 300 brass for hunting and I am set for many years.... At one point I wanted to sell her because of the problem getting brass but now, I wouldn't even think about it!

I would use it for deer and moose, far more power than a 30-30! If you want any reloading suggestions or other info just PM me.
 
Hey Darryl....

I have been meaning to pick up a chrony for a while now.... So until then I would be interested in your results. I have used a variety of reloads with the .356, but I have to say that I like IMR3031 the best. It is a nice fast burning powder. I used to use H335 (supposedly the fastest velocities for this caliber)... it was good but not as good and consistant as IMR3031. I have a NEW love... :lol:

My cartridges also have the primer hole reamed and uniformed. :idea:

BTW.... For all you gun nutz.... ELLWOOD EPPS in Orillia, Ontario IMHO has the best selection of brass (ALL in stock too) and hard to get stuff ANYWHERE! They are curtious and their prices are reasonable. For all those interested:

Elwood Epps Sporting Goods
R.R. #3
Orillia, Ontario.

info@ellwoodepps.com
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/
 
saputnik, My rifle came with 5 boxes of ammo, and I've bought 4 boxes since of factory ammo. (24.99 on close out, Lets just say I took what he had :mrgreen: )
SO Im set for brass for a while.
I've still got one box of 200 gr factory loads, and one box of 250 gr factory loads, but Its time to mix up a load.


REDD, I'll bring it up next week, and we'll see what the factory loads do.
but i still have to buy dies for it. :oops:
I might have a new toy to play with too. :wink:
 
I've still got one box of 200 gr factory loads, and one box of 250 gr factory loads, but Its time to mix up a load.
Click to expand...

Darryl....

I remember the first shots I threw down the pipe when I bought her... 200 grainers... I almost threw the gun in the fire barrel! It sank like a rock!!!! 5 inches low no matter what!!! 250's??? OMG :shock: You would be ploughing for gophers at 50 yards!!! :lol:

I then took her back to my reloading bench.... went to the range and plugged the bullseye with 180's... at 50 yards 8) ... I then thought "This could be the start of an amazing relationship baby!!!!" :lol:

If I were you, I would pull those 250's!!! My buddy used to joke when I would be on my hands and knees scouring the grass for my brass (like a $10 hooker on the stage :shock: ) He said "Damn those things are more precious to you than gold!!!" :lol:

Let me know what you guys find out at the range..... My paper results as of 4 weeks ago were awesome. Downside - NO EXCUSES for any missed deer this season! :oops: :twisted:
 
Saputnik, I actually want it for the heavier bullets.
I have a pretty big list of 30 cal's, and figured using the lighter bullets to be kind of defeating the purpose for what i bought the 35 for.
The 200's stay inside of an inch and a half @ 50 yards. and I suspect the 250's should be pretty close.
I use the gun Primarily for Brush hunting, but was thinking of putting a 2-6 3200 pistol scope on it on a scout mount. (Like my 30-30)
The 180's would in effect increase my MPBR.
Thats when I'd start really looking @ the 180's

And Rick was getting around 2900 FPS out of his BLR with a 358 Win and 180 gr bullets.
Even if I get 2600, I would be horribly Impressed.
 
My Marlin 356Win pics link below.

Also if interested in a few 356Win loads I've tried and used then follow "loading" link on this page. Probably lots better loads out there - but these ones go bang and kill game if I point them in the right spot it seems.

Click here - http://35cal.com/photos.html
 
DarrylDB said:
Saputnik, I actually want it for the heavier bullets.
I have a pretty big list of 30 cal's, and figured using the lighter bullets to be kind of defeating the purpose for what i bought the 35 for.
Click to expand...
I could never understand why alot of people buy a big bore and shoot lighter bullets. :? 180s in a 35cal are for varmints :wink:

There is a fellow here in SJ that had a Sav99 bored out to 358W, but he only shoots 180s in it. He would have been far better off leaving it as is and shooting 180/30cal bullets instead.

I shoot nothing but 250s in my Whelen for hunting and use the 200s for playing at the range. If I want something that has a bit more range, I just got for the .264Mag.

SC......................
 
I could never understand why alot of people buy a big bore and shoot lighter bullets. 180s in a 35cal are for varmints
Click to expand...

180's are more accurate, go further, and a .35 Cal 180gr Speer FN will turn any deer inside out and drop any moose that Canada has to offer IMHO. Win 94 barrels have very low rates of twist and are very short, all effecting the range and ballistics. :!: Now if I had a bolt action .35 (like a 35 Whelen) with a 26" barrel (1 in 10" or 1 in 12") twist..... :idea: Heavier bullets would definately be in my arsenal.

Levers and pump carbines suck with heavy slow bullets IMHO. :? If I decide to drop a Rino, I will use 250's for sure!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Want more shock? Use a 45-70 with 350 grainers!
 
sPuTnik said:
Levers and pump carbines suck with heavy slow bullets IMHO. :?
Click to expand...
How is it that a 250 is OK for a boltgun but not for a lever or pumpgun :?: I get about 2500fps with 250s in my 7600/Whelen and that aint no slouch on any game, big or small and works pretty good out to 300yds with about a 10'' holdover :shock:

Who uses a 35 Whelen with a 26" barrel anyways? :arrow:


sPuTnik said:
If I decide to drop a Rino, I will use 250's for sure!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...
The (non-magnum) 35 cals were pretty much designed for heavier game in mind while not being too crazy big for deer sized game and the 250s are perfect for general use in this caliber as 180s are standard for 30cals.

Heavy bullets for caliber have a higher BC and often shoot flatter than the lighter, stubbier bullets.

Example.... I just pulled these # from a manual for reference.

A 356Win w/180 FP bullet at MV 2600 fps and a 200yd zero will be 12.5" low @ 300yds, 38.3"@ 400, and 98.0" @ 500 yds.

A 35Whelen w/250gr Speer SP at MV 2500 fps and a 200yd zero will be 10.2" low @ 300, 29.6" @ 400 and 60.0" @ 500yds.

For comparision for 180gr bullets I included the 30/06 w/180 SP at 2800 fps will be 7.7" @ 300 yds, 22.4" @ 400, and only 45.1" @ 500 :shock: Clearly if you want to shoot 180s a 30/06 or bigger 30cal would be the way to go!

sPuTnik said:
Want more shock? Use a 45-70 with 350 grainers!
Click to expand...
If I want more "shock", and I think you are refering to hydro-static shock, I'll use my .264Mag before my 35W or even my 375 H&H. :!:
 
sPuTnik said:
Levers and pump carbines suck with heavy slow bullets IMHO. :? If I decide to drop a Rino, I will use 250's for sure!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Want more shock? Use a 45-70 with 350 grainers!
Click to expand...


I dont know if I agree with you there, though everyone is entitled to their opinion.
But Lever and Pump carbine rifles are specifically considered your best option for up close and personal use. (Fast and reliable)
Especially in thick and dense hunting situations.

I would much prefer a 220 gr-250 gr bullet if my shooting were to be inside of 50-75 yards. I was considering trying the 180's because I was intending to put the 2-6 scout scope on it, and shooting it a bit farther/Flatter.
250 gr FN's have a large Meplat, and dump alot of energy, but your right, my guide gun with 350's could in theory do it better.
Both of these guns fit the same purpose to me. shooting inside a max of 100 yards, when Im dogging or in the thick ####.
If Im sitting on a beavermeadow/field, I have a few better choices than my iron sighted 356 if you know what I mean.
So shooting 180's isnt going to turn my 356 into a beanfield rifle, and shooting 220 gr sp's out of my 300 win mag isnt going to make it a stopper like my 45-70.
 
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