358 Norma MAG vs 338 WIN MAG vs 9.3x62 vs 35 Whelen
- Thread starter Omenator
- Start date
The .338 WM has an edge on the 9.3 over longer distances. Although both can fire a 250 gr. bullet at 2700 fps, or close to it, the .338 bullet has a higher sectional density and ballistic coefficient. Comparing bullets of similar sectional density, 250 gr 9.3mm v 210 gr. .338, the .338 will achieve close to 3000 fps.
That said, I sold my .338 and went with a 9.3x62 because I just didn't feel the need for the extra velocity. And while the 250 gr. 338 bullet is theoretically a superior performer, the 9.3mm is still more than adequate.
That said, I sold my .338 and went with a 9.3x62 because I just didn't feel the need for the extra velocity. And while the 250 gr. 338 bullet is theoretically a superior performer, the 9.3mm is still more than adequate.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If you have sufficient shooting experience to handle rifles chambered for the cartridges that are on your wish list, a .375 (H&H or Ruger) is no problem at all; mostly its a girl's gun, meaning the .375 is the cartridge most frequently recommended for women and novice shooters heading to Africa. I dare say a Brno 602 in .375 H&H that correctly fits to you, and has the benefit of a good quality recoil pad, will be nicer to shoot than a Husky in .358 Norma. Even the heaviest North American game has fairly light body density compared to African and Asiatic game, so you don't need the heaviest, stoutest bullets, or their recoil, to get the job done. A 230 gr mono-metal bullet at 3000 fps will shoot flat and hit hard whether you're sighted on a sheep, a grizzly, or a bison.
Don 't get too caught up in paper ballistics. After seeing hundreds of game animals shot over his lifetime, Finn Aagard suggested there was no way to tell the difference between an animal hit with a .375 H&H and one hit similarly with the 9.3X62. The key is to place a good bullet in the right place, and while the .358 Norma might have the most impressive figures on paper, putting that bullet in the right place, and being ready to lay in another one as the rifle comes down out of recoil will be far easier with a 9.3, even in a light rifle. For years I looked down on the 9.3X62 . . . until I got one.
If there is one element of powerful rifles that makes me cringe, its when I see a scope mounted so the ocular extends a couple of inches behind the cocking piece on a rifle that correctly fits the shooter. If you want to acquire a flinch that will haunt you for a long time, get hit by a scope on a heavy recoiling rifle. I'm not scared of many rifles, but I'd sooner shoot with irons than be forced to use a scope that I had to try to outrun on a .458.
Of the choices offered, I'd go with the 9.3x62. Although I haven't owned a 358NM, I do own a 340WBY, an '06, and a 375 Ruger in addition to my CZ550 9.3x62.
As others have said, if you don't handload, the best choice would be the 338 Win Mag. If you do handload, then either the 358 or the 9.3x62 will do - with 250 gr bullets at 2650+ fps in the 9.3x62, the 338 really doesn't offer any real-world advantage, and the animal that could tell the difference being hit by either hasn't been born yet. If you handload you will then be able to wring the most out of the 9.3x62. Loaded to standard 30-06 pressures, 2500 fps is very doable with 286 gr bullets, and 2650+ with 250's. And as stated before, one has the advantage of 5 down instead of 3 down.
Personally, I don't see much use for a 35 Whelen, unless one has a faster than standard twist barrel so it will better handle bullets heavier than 225 gr. The only advantage it has that I can figure is the ability to use .357 pistol bullets for reduced loads.
One other thing, don't be too quick to discount the 30-06 in your intended role - it is a wonderfully versatile round for heavy game especially when loaded with a 200 gr Nosler Partition at 2650+ fps.
As others have said, if you don't handload, the best choice would be the 338 Win Mag. If you do handload, then either the 358 or the 9.3x62 will do - with 250 gr bullets at 2650+ fps in the 9.3x62, the 338 really doesn't offer any real-world advantage, and the animal that could tell the difference being hit by either hasn't been born yet. If you handload you will then be able to wring the most out of the 9.3x62. Loaded to standard 30-06 pressures, 2500 fps is very doable with 286 gr bullets, and 2650+ with 250's. And as stated before, one has the advantage of 5 down instead of 3 down.
Personally, I don't see much use for a 35 Whelen, unless one has a faster than standard twist barrel so it will better handle bullets heavier than 225 gr. The only advantage it has that I can figure is the ability to use .357 pistol bullets for reduced loads.
One other thing, don't be too quick to discount the 30-06 in your intended role - it is a wonderfully versatile round for heavy game especially when loaded with a 200 gr Nosler Partition at 2650+ fps.
I've owned 4 Remingtons in 35Whelen. All came with factory 1:16" bbls and all shot 250gr Speers well. My current 358Win has a 1:14" bbl and it shoots the same bullets as well. IIRC, the Rugers have faster twist. To discount the Whelen based on twist is folly.
The real diff between a 9.3 and 35Whelen really isn't that much either way. Both are excellent.
I've owned and hunted with a 35 Whelen since the 1960s and jumped on the 9.3X62 bandwagon a few years ago.
However, after having 3 rifles in that chambering I was not able to see any advantage to a 9.3 over a Whelen.
My Whelen will handle a 275 gr. Hornady with outstanding accuracy which is as large a bullet as I need to hunt with.
So, with that in mind my CZ 550 FS is on the block and the old faithful Whelen stays..
However, after having 3 rifles in that chambering I was not able to see any advantage to a 9.3 over a Whelen.
My Whelen will handle a 275 gr. Hornady with outstanding accuracy which is as large a bullet as I need to hunt with.
So, with that in mind my CZ 550 FS is on the block and the old faithful Whelen stays..
I have shot a bunch of Bears with the 338 Win Mag using 210 -250 Nosler Partitions - always Killed well ! Factory ammo is a LOT more available for it then any of those other Cartridges too ! jmo RJ
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
What you need is a 7x57 and a 9.3x62. Perfect light and medium combination. Add a 416 Rigby and you've got a very healthy trifecta.
The 7600 35 Whelen I had was passable, at 2-2.5" groups with 250's, but went for a big crap with anything heavier. I like the heavier ones - you may as well just shoot 200's or 220's out of an '06 as shoot 200-225's out of a Whelen.
I read that as "beers"!
9.3 x 62
Someone else posted a similar question in another forum. My answer here would be the same as before
"Everyone has their own reason for having either but it depends on what your comfortable shooting, and terrain/animal being hunted. I hunt in bush so the CZ550FS 9.3 x 62 (using a heavy RN bullet) is ideal. If I was going to an open area where shots could reach out to 400yds then I would tend towards the .338 (actually I would use my 8x68S but that's not included in this thread). Bullet choices for example may include: Nosler's 210gr Partition or Hornady 225gr SST, or Barnes 250gr series of bullets. There are other mfg's out there for .338 bullets so "to each his own".
I do love the 9.3 though. It is a great calibre and hurts this old man's shoulder less."
338 will be easier to find ammo/components for vs 358 Norma. Bullet selection will also be more varied.
375 H&H is another option. Great calibre. Can be loaded for bear or buff! Good longer range calibre.
Again rifle choice is personal preference. My 338 is a Win M70 Alaskan. Nice rifle.
I agree with BigUglyMan. I have all that he has mentioned. Can hunt pretty much anything on the planet. The 7x57 is the "little brother" to the 9.3.
Someone else posted a similar question in another forum. My answer here would be the same as before
"Everyone has their own reason for having either but it depends on what your comfortable shooting, and terrain/animal being hunted. I hunt in bush so the CZ550FS 9.3 x 62 (using a heavy RN bullet) is ideal. If I was going to an open area where shots could reach out to 400yds then I would tend towards the .338 (actually I would use my 8x68S but that's not included in this thread). Bullet choices for example may include: Nosler's 210gr Partition or Hornady 225gr SST, or Barnes 250gr series of bullets. There are other mfg's out there for .338 bullets so "to each his own".
I do love the 9.3 though. It is a great calibre and hurts this old man's shoulder less."
338 will be easier to find ammo/components for vs 358 Norma. Bullet selection will also be more varied.
375 H&H is another option. Great calibre. Can be loaded for bear or buff! Good longer range calibre.
Again rifle choice is personal preference. My 338 is a Win M70 Alaskan. Nice rifle.
I agree with BigUglyMan. I have all that he has mentioned. Can hunt pretty much anything on the planet. The 7x57 is the "little brother" to the 9.3.
The 9.3X62 just plain works. Ask Don Heath.........
Works up here, too.
Both were game over with one shot; 270 gr Matrix for the bear, 320 gr Norma solid for the really biggggg guy.
The 9.3X62 is a 375 with five in the magazine.
Ted
Works up here, too.
Both were game over with one shot; 270 gr Matrix for the bear, 320 gr Norma solid for the really biggggg guy.
The 9.3X62 is a 375 with five in the magazine.
Ted
RJ
The best of the works for when "things start to unravel" or as you put it "plans start falling apart" is undoubtedly the 358 NM. Forget all the blather about bullet selection as all your mentioned cartridges have adequate bullet selection, for your needs. I have hunted with all your mentioned cartridges except the 358, but Why not? and I have a very good friend who used nothing but for many years and many head of game and it is a killing machine. Animal presentation doesn't matter to the 358 NM when using 250 gn Parts or some of the newer premium bullets. Of the cartridges you listed, I am the least impressed with the 338 WM and have seen several failures with this cartridge. Another good hunting buddy used his Whelen for many seasons and never found it lacking with 250 gn Speers on anything including big bears. Myself and Why not? have used the 9.3 on game and neither of us has found it lacking either, Ted has used it much more than I.
In my opinion though, you have overlooked the finest cartridge of this class...the 340 Wby....as you stated you reload so ammo cost is not a concern to you and you can grab 100 R-P 375 H&H cases and run them through your die and voila, you have 340 Wby cases for the price of 338 WM. I won't dwell on this because you did not include it, but If you are considering the 358 NM you really should consider a 340.
As far as magazine capacity goes there are a number of rifles that hold 4 and 5 magnum cartridges under, my Sako Safari holds 5 mags under as does the CZ and the old Brno 602 and the older Sako L61R-A IV all hold 4 mags under. Plus there are several makers of larger capacity bottom metal, for a couple hundred bucks.
The 35 Whelen and 9.3X62 really shine if you want a 20-21" carbine style rifle as their high expansion ratio makes them very efficient in shorter barrels, however you asked for comparisons in a 24" barrel, where the 358 NM has no peers with the group of cartridges you chose. The 358 is a true step up from the rest and is just a slight notch below the 340 Wby or 375 H&H, but make no mistake nothing is free and the recoil is on par with the 340/375 and is a significant step up from the rest as well.
There is another candidate that you overlooked in this group, that I have taken many head of game with, and that is the 350 RM.........this little guy hits 3 classes up from where one might think it belongs and kills all out of proportion to it's diminutive appearance. Although not significantly better than the Whelen, it is slightly better and works through a short action and is also conducive to shorter barrels. I used to scoff at my buddy who used this cartridge for everything until I bought one and hunted with it, let me tell you it made a believer out of me.
There are so many great cartridges in this category that selection can only be made by personal preference, and very few would be wrong for your stated purpose. If as you say the sh!t is about to hit the fan I would be quite happy standing there with the 358 NM, the 9.3X62 or the 35 Whelen.........in that order, of the cartridges you selected.
In my opinion though, you have overlooked the finest cartridge of this class...the 340 Wby....as you stated you reload so ammo cost is not a concern to you and you can grab 100 R-P 375 H&H cases and run them through your die and voila, you have 340 Wby cases for the price of 338 WM. I won't dwell on this because you did not include it, but If you are considering the 358 NM you really should consider a 340.
As far as magazine capacity goes there are a number of rifles that hold 4 and 5 magnum cartridges under, my Sako Safari holds 5 mags under as does the CZ and the old Brno 602 and the older Sako L61R-A IV all hold 4 mags under. Plus there are several makers of larger capacity bottom metal, for a couple hundred bucks.
The 35 Whelen and 9.3X62 really shine if you want a 20-21" carbine style rifle as their high expansion ratio makes them very efficient in shorter barrels, however you asked for comparisons in a 24" barrel, where the 358 NM has no peers with the group of cartridges you chose. The 358 is a true step up from the rest and is just a slight notch below the 340 Wby or 375 H&H, but make no mistake nothing is free and the recoil is on par with the 340/375 and is a significant step up from the rest as well.
There is another candidate that you overlooked in this group, that I have taken many head of game with, and that is the 350 RM.........this little guy hits 3 classes up from where one might think it belongs and kills all out of proportion to it's diminutive appearance. Although not significantly better than the Whelen, it is slightly better and works through a short action and is also conducive to shorter barrels. I used to scoff at my buddy who used this cartridge for everything until I bought one and hunted with it, let me tell you it made a believer out of me.
There are so many great cartridges in this category that selection can only be made by personal preference, and very few would be wrong for your stated purpose. If as you say the sh!t is about to hit the fan I would be quite happy standing there with the 358 NM, the 9.3X62 or the 35 Whelen.........in that order, of the cartridges you selected.
Personal bias aside ..... How is the 338WM subject to several failures and the 340Wby such a fine cartridge? Both fire the same bullet and are separated only by a bit of velocity.
...... or for that matter, the 358NM gets the go ahead and the 338WM not?
I've not any experience with the 338 or 9.3 having only owned the 358NM and Whelen so my personal experience with all the OPs suggestions is minimal thus the question.
