358's

It would be a Top Choice for Water Buffalo Hunting in the Top End (Northern Territory) especially hunting them off the Floodplains and into the Scrub, Anyone can shoot a Buffalo or 12 on the Floodplain from a Vehicle, but the Real excitement and the ones who understand fair chase and want to be 1 on 1 with their Buffalo, hunt them in the Trees/ Scrub... And that's where a Good bit of Power comes in Handy..

300 grainer in 358 sounds spot on.

for the record, I shot my 100+ on the floodplain, but the others in the Trees, as I had dreamed of doing it. :D

Solids would be bullet to use. Cool article on Buffalo hunting in the Northern Territory. The author used a 425 Express with 400gr solids at 2400 fps MV and got 1 shot DRT kills with shoulder shots. :cool:

"Minimum recommended calibre is 338 Win Mag..."

http://www.australiawidesafaris.com.au/hunting-safaris/water-buffalo-hunting-safaris/

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my mate and the NT rangers use 308s with 180 corelokts LOL........ kills them every time, in the thousanddddddds...

but my bad, its not a Shot placement thread :D

edit- Ruger scout rifles are THE rifle of the Northern Rangers.

cool article for the big bore fans to drool over..
 
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But does a 308 kill 'em DRT at range with a single shoulder shot? ;)

I consider my 358 loaded with 310gr bullets to be just barely adequate for Moose and Elk if range isn't over about 100 meters, the closer the better. I have other rifles I prefer to hunt with that I think are way better suited like my 416's which take long range heavy game stomping capability to the next level.

Nicest thing about my lightweight take-down 358 BLR is that it stows nicely and I can take it with me when scouting around on my dirt bike. :cool:

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But does a 308 kill 'em DRT at range with a single shoulder shot? ;)

I consider my 358 loaded with 310gr bullets to be just barely adequate for Moose and Elk if range isn't over about 100 meters, the closer the better. I have other rifles I prefer to hunt with that I think are way better suited like my 416's which take long range heavy game stomping capability to the next level.

Nicest thing about my lightweight take-down 358 BLR is that it stows nicely and I can take it with me when scouting around on my dirt bike. :cool:

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Nice ! I pack my BLR 358 Win on my Quad - its Handy and Fast to load with the Mag system ! :) RJ
 
Well I just came back from a range session testing .35 Whelen loads, specifically the CFE223 load with 250gr Speer bullets. The velocities Speer had published seemed way to good to be true. But nope, 2630fps with no pressure signs at book max out of my Scout. Nifty.

Wouldn't want to push a .358 Win close to that, maybe a .350 Rem Mag? I doubt the throat is long enough for those Speers though.

EDIT: Here's the pulverizer load: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...309-Ladder-Test!-35-Whelen-CFE223-250gr-Speer
 
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Go with the Whelen build. You already like the cartridge and know its potential. Treat yourself with a build. The 358Win is a great cartridge for a short action or lever gun, but that extra punch from the Whelen is worth its weight in gold beyond 250 metres.

My lightweight Whelen is now complete, shooting tight cloverleaf groupings, and just in time for the northern season. Rem 700 stainless action, Timney Elite trigger, KS Arms barrel with a#2 contour, a 12" twist finished at 22", and McMillan Edge stock. I have only used Remington shelf loads. The 200s overlap at 100 metres and are 2" at 300 metres. The 250s are still tight at 200 metres but spread out to about 3.5" at 300 metres. The 200s had a complete pass through on a deer at around 250ish metres. Plenty of punch to anchor a bull elk at the same range. The bullet did not exit but it sure did its job well.

Build your Whelen!
 
Hunting right now with a .358 BLR > very handy, light. Not as slim as a kimber montana but better than many. It has decent ballistics, better than most assume, but as for 300 yards, can't attest to that as all my shots are under 100. BLR is accurate but probably won't match the 300 yard accuracy of a good bolt.

My two cents - a kimber montana / tikka t3x lite in 30-06. all ya need.
 
Hunting right now with a .358 BLR > very handy, light. Not as slim as a kimber montana but better than many. It has decent ballistics, better than most assume, but as for 300 yards, can't attest to that as all my shots are under 100. BLR is accurate but probably won't match the 300 yard accuracy of a good bolt.

A BLR I bought NIB as .308 Win and had rebarreled .358 Win by Bill Leeper (because at the time Browning/FN wasn't offering the BLR in 358) will keep Barnes 180 grain bullets at 1.5 MOA for five rounds. That's the original Barnes 180 x-bullet, not the current TTSX 180 grain options. My wife shot one muley at close to 300 yards with that load, shooting with her pack as a rest. Seemed to work just fine on fur as it does on paper at 300 yards. I use the 200 gr. Barnes TTSX in the 35 Whelan; if Barnes hadn't brought back the 180 grain in the new TTSX, I would have eventually decided to develop a 200 TTSX load for the BLR as the supply of the original 180 grainers dwindled.

I've always been somewhat bemused at decades of hunters like O'Connor & Company finding a 30/06 with 180 grain rounds perfectly usable at 300 yards for elk, moose, etc. But a .358 Winchester with it's bigger expansion ratio also using a 180 grain bullet is a handicap if you're not using it as a "brush gun". Or for that matter, using a too light bullet like a 180 grainer, instead of a 250 grain - or at least a 225 grain bullet.
 
Anyone not hunt with a short barrel or lever in 358? I see a Remington 700 in 358 with 22 in barrel.. any advantage in performance worth packing a long barreled bolt rifle?? I sold by BLR pistol grip 358 and bought a 35 Whelen pump carbine. Fantastic rifle.
 
awww- im fighting the sentimental values of my Whelen at the moment versus the lack of use + could be used wiser funds from said gun...
reason being now days with my 'line up', i dont feel i would miss it with the 30-06 being a real keeper due to its left hand config...

i dont have big bull elk, but the big Sambar are toe to toe , We do have Buffalo, but i wont be hunting those again. im content with that.

200gr Woodleigh if its needed, 180gr is proven to work though and im often using 150grains.... i just have no use for the Whelen any more but it is one of those Guns an somewhat uncommon rounds that is historically worth owning ............ but whats a Rebarrel down the track with the LH lighter rifle.. just another bridge, as i will have reloading gear if ever needed.

otherwise though, The Whelens are awesome, ive never loaded it to full potential, You would love it i rekon.

Woodleighs operate pretty good in them
 
I see a Remington 700 in 358 with 22 in barrel.. any advantage in performance worth packing a long barreled bolt rifle??

Depends on the caliber (expansion ratio actually is a thing), barrel taper, etc - and what you like and what you don't. I had Bill Leeper rebarrel a straight grip .308 BLR to .358 Winchester. He left the replacement barrel at 24" long, saying that he would cut it back to the BLR factory length of 20" if I felt the barrel was too long. Did something very similar with a Husqvarna Husky in 30/06, rebarreling to 30 Newton. Again, left the new barrel at 24" unlike the original barrel that was 20.5" inches.

In both cases, the barrels Bill left at 24" are still 24 inches, despite these rifles being kind of "carbines" when you look at their original weight and barrel length. They feel like they hang on target better when shooting offhand, the balance feels fine, and I'm not quite to that stage in life that the weight of that extra 4" of barrel is going to break me.

The velocity gains in .35 calibers per extra inch of barrel are, generally, greater than what you'll get out of a .30, 7mm, .25, etc.
 
The velocity gains in .35 calibers per extra inch of barrel are, generally, greater than what you'll get out of a .30, 7mm, .25, etc.

That is the opposite of my experience... I have found that the larger the bore and the (generally) slower the cartridge the LESS the velocity loss per inch of barrel as it is shortened... which conversely lead me to believe the LOWER the velocity gain for each inch of additional barrel length. Of course it is far more difficult to ADD barrel length to any given barrel than to remove it, however this logic would seem sound... at least to me.
 
That is the opposite of my experience... I have found that the larger the bore and the (generally) slower the cartridge the LESS the velocity loss per inch of barrel as it is shortened...

I think you're on the same path: The bigger the bore, generally speaking, the less velocity loss for reduction in barrel length (how many long barreled .458 Winchesters are built to get some useful increase in muzzle velocity?). Again, this is generally speaking because there are very quick burning powders which burn much more quickly with x amount of barrel length, and there are very slow burning powders that require x amount of barrel length to burn - so it isn't a binary binary comparison.

Homer Powley, who worked as a ballistician for Frankfurt Arsenals, was writing about expansion ratio (and other internal ballistics issues like chamber pressures) for handloaders back in the mid/late 1960's. I bought several Powley slide rule type ballistic computers in the early 1970's to help me with load development.

For example: compare the ubiquitous traditional moose load in the 30/06, a 180 grain bullet of whatever manufacturer, to the same 180 grain spitzer design bullet in the .358 Winchester. In the same 24" barrel length - but with the .358 Winchester's smaller powder capacity. For comparison purposes, it's hard to find reloading manuals that use the same barrel lengths and also use the same powders in both - because they optimize the best powder choices for maximum muzzle velocity with the case capacity and expansion ratio. Velocity sells...

30-06: 2700 to 2800 fps, using ~ 53 to 59 grains of powder
358 Win: 2760 to 2830 fps, using ~ 45 to 50 grains of powder​

So, slightly more velocity for the same bullet weight out of the same length of barrel - despite smaller case capacity. Expansion ratio. (If the subject wasn't the 358, the more similar comparison for the purposes of expansion ratio would by the 35 Whelen versus the 30/06. The same weights of powder charges in the same length barrel will now have several rounds delivering close to 300 fps more muzzle velocity for that same weight bullet)

So identical weight bigger bore bullets out of the .358 will exit the same barrel length going faster using less powder - but also with lower ballistic coefficients with the same spitzer form factor, which will immediately turn off the long range crowd. And slightly less recoil, of course, when you are burning less powder to get the same weight of bullet out of two rifles of the same weight. That's a plus for many, especially those who decide they like light hunting rifles.

You can play with ultimate powder selection for the resulting highest MVs in each rifle (assuming that is also the powder that groups best), and then furiously figure out the differences in the bullet drop in each chambering with that same weight of bullet at 300 yards (or whatever), and then do more calculations to figure to the last foot lb. what each delivers when it meets moose...

However, 180 grain bullets at anything near 2700 - 2800 fps out of a 30/06 have been putting moose in the family freezer at moose shooting distances for about a century. As will that same 180 grain bullet out of a .358 Winchester going slightly faster at the muzzle anywhere out to 300 yards if the rifle of the owner can shoot that far.

But as far as the issue of expansion ratio goes, you can get the same weight and same design of big game bullet out the end of the same length of .358 Winchester (until the point where the bullets start eliminating useable case capacity) as you can out of a 30/06 moose rifle. And that same expansion ratio is also your friend in bores/case capacity where the faster powders are an advantage if you prefer shorter hunting barrels.

Which leads back to the previous question of whether a longer barrel on a .358 Winchester is worth it?

I'd say it's worth it, depending on how much bullet weight you believe is necessary to kill a deer, an elk, a moose, etc.

If you believe that a 180 grain bullet will do the job out of a .358 Winchester just as well as it will out of a 30/06 (and the extra couple of inches of barrel length doesn't offend you), then it's worth it.

On the other hand, if you believe that unlike the ubiquitous 30/06 that kills just fine with 180 grain bullets, the 358 Winchester needs bullets of 250 grain or heavier to reliably kill moose and lesser creatures, then after you've surrendered all that case capacity to load those longer heavier bullets, my guess is that the resulting muzzle velocities are going to leave you with little velocity gain at the muzzle.

Other than cast hunting bullets of 225 grain and up out of the 358 Winchester, I've never understood the the factory 225 and 250 grain loads in the .358 Winchester. What was the idea? Just to slightly improve on the 35 Remington and hope the 35 caliber crowd adopted it because of the familiar 35 caliber bullet weights?

With proper bullet selection, I've always scratched my head as the generations of sages of the gun magazines lectured the acolyte class that the .358 Winchester was a nice "brush rifle", but that's about it.
 
I have a .358 in a bolt action - model 54 Cooper and have 2 loads for it. With NP 225 gr. Bullets. The rifle’s not light but
Only a moderate recoil. Also a Remington 750 carbine that is
Lighter but the autoload action really dampens its recoil.
Both are enjoyable to hunt with.
 
I suspect the factory 250 grain loads in the 358 were done, at least partially, to copy the 348 winchester loadings which were well regarded back in the day.
 
I think you're on the same path: The bigger the bore, generally speaking, the less velocity loss for reduction in barrel length (how many long barreled .458 Winchesters are built to get some useful increse in muzzle velocity?)

The velocity gains in .35 calibers per extra inch of barrel are, generally, greater than what you'll get out of a .30, 7mm, .25, etc.

Your bold quote seems to indicate the opposite of your original quote above... I agree with the bold statement, it lines up with my experiences, but I do not agree with the original statement. The remainder of the post on expansion ratios comparing different bore diameters really does not apply to what we were talking about. Your conclusion at the end regarding factory .358 loads of 225 and 250 grains (being little better than the .35 Rem offerings) was not considering who these loads were marketed to... which were mid-western and Eastern WT and BB hunters, largely short range scenarios, where a heavier/slower bullet performs very well... it made sense, the problem was that most of those hunters were shooting .30-30's with a 170 grain Silver Tip and saw no reason to change. Regardless of marketing strategies and field options, I have found the .358 to be useful in the field on all medium game out to 300 yards with bullets from 200 - 225 grains... I find the 250's too heavy for the powder capacity of the .358 Win... they are better suited to the Whelen and Rem Mag (IMO), as an all-around load... if the game is "bear over bait" or "cedar swamp whitetails" then the 250's are great. With the Hornady 200 SP tight groups and surprisingly flat shooting with an excellent payload, that flattens medium game to 200 yards and accurate 300 yard shooting, is a very reasonable expectation... although when I expect 300 yard shooting, I do not choose one of my .358's. The Speer 220 SPFN is another very good all-around option for the .358 from 0 - 200 yards.
 
I have a Ruger Frontier in .358 it has a 16.5 “ barrel, I load the 250 Hornady SP with 40 grains of IMR4198 I don’t know the velocity but it is deadly, accurate and shoots flat enough to 300 yards for anything that walks in B.C.
 
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