.375 Ruger....

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Ok, so I found an African and bought it, I'll run it through it's paces in a bit and see just what this cartridge is all about.........first I'll bed and reinforce the stock. Got gobs of W-W 300 WM brass and 100s, maybe 1000s of 375 bullets, so I'll blow out 50 rounds or so and then see what she's got. It might make an ok coyote rifle with 235 gn Speers or a decent deer rifle with 250 or 260 gn bullets. I still don't think I'll be impressed, but I'll have a good donor for something in the future, maybe get Ron Smith to bore it to 416 with a gain twist............That might be fun.............
 
jjohnwm said:
I'll bet it is, especially when he seems so enthusiastic about it.
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JJ.......you noticed all that enthusiasm, well I have to give it a fair shake myself before I can definitively say it sucks or shines, it's the fair way to do this............It still won't change my opinion as to the longevity of this orphan, but I will know the full capability of the cartridge and how it really compares to the H&H. Using W-W brass I can truly load it to it's full potential for an honest comparison..........Right now I get 2925 from a 270 gn TSX in a 24" tube in my 700 Rem H&H with R-P brass and RL 15, the Ruger should get over 3000 fps with this bullet if it acts as it should, with the more efficient powder column and slightly greater capacity. My 9.3X300 has given me 3040 fps with 270s and less powder capacity, but a 26" tube. The Ruger should easily match this if all is Kosher and the cartridge design is without flaw.
3000 fps with a 270 should really twist gatehouse's tail up in a knot and have him spluttering about blowing up guns etc...........my motto is, as long as the brass contains the pressure and the case is reusable for 3-5 loads it is safe. This standard of loading was set down in writing many years ago by a gentleman with much greater exposure than I and several books to his credit, so it isn't just me, you might recognize his name..........Bob Hagel........I might add PO Ackley was also a firm proponent of getting the full capability from a cartridge and had a lot to do with his AI design, so he could increase pressure and reduce bolt face thrust to gain the greatest possible capability from a given case size.
But what do I know, "just another moron that keeps adding powder till something gives" is how I have been characterized by some here. So all I have to say to that is "Let the games begin", let's see what gives and where............
 
c-fbmi, I'm looking forward to the results of your testing...but, honestly, I think we all know what they will probably boil down to. The New Fling and the Old Guard will be, for all intents and purposes on game, indistinguishable from one another. You'll find a couple of instances where the newbie develops a few more fps, or generates a few less psi of pressure, or whatever...and the entire New Age Boy Band will raise their arms and cheer. You'll probably find a few instances in which the H&H comes out ahead by equally miniscule measurements, and the chirping of crickets will be the only sound heard. It's an academic exercise, one well suited to someone like yourself who has loads of experience with all the facets of cartridge development and loading...you should do it just so that you can say you did, if for no other reason. But we should go further...

Right now there seems to be a push on to rename cartridges, at least here on CGN. The 9.3x62 (a cool-sounding name, only because it's got that continental-metric-goofiness thing going for it) is morphing into the .366Wagner, in honour of one the cartridge's foremost proponents. Nice! Let's do something akin to that with the .375Ruger (who really likes that name, aside from Bill R's ghost?). How about the ".375Gatehouse"? Nope, doesn't work...not continental, not metric...but still goofy. Allrighty, we could try the initials thing, like the OKH cartridges from "back in the day"...maybe the ".375GANE" (Gatehouse And Nobody Else)?

We already have the .375Weatherby (.375Wby) so my personal favourite choice for a new name...the ".375WB" (Why Bother?) will probably just cause confusion, especially among the feeble-minded.

We already have the RCM cartridges, so another personal fave...the ".375BCM" (Beltless Classless Magnum), while perhaps the most accurately descriptive, sounds too close for comfort.

How about the ".375JAW" (Just Another Wannabe)? That has some snap to it.

I'm out of ideas...any help here? Without some fresh thinking, we might have to settle for the ".375WJAGSWB" (We're Just As Good So We're Better) and call it a day...but who wants that? :)
 
Nah...just a shared high level of "respect and admiration" for Gatehouse and his "Cult of the Dancing Banana". :)
 
H'mmm, after all that it appears the little cub is all "squalled" out and breathless.

c-fbmi we will look forward to your testing results, after having personally fired a few of your test loads the results should be all telling.

jjohnwm you do have a way with words and a sense of humor
 
c-fbmi said:
JJ.......you noticed all that enthusiasm, well I have to give it a fair shake myself before I can definitively say it sucks or shines, it's the fair way to do this............It still won't change my opinion as to the longevity of this orphan, but I will know the full capability of the cartridge and how it really compares to the H&H. Using W-W brass I can truly load it to it's full potential for an honest comparison..........Right now I get 2925 from a 270 gn TSX in a 24" tube in my 700 Rem H&H with R-P brass and RL 15, the Ruger should get over 3000 fps with this bullet if it acts as it should, with the more efficient powder column and slightly greater capacity. My 9.3X300 has given me 3040 fps with 270s and less powder capacity, but a 26" tube. The Ruger should easily match this if all is Kosher and the cartridge design is without flaw.
3000 fps with a 270 should really twist gatehouse's tail up in a knot and have him spluttering about blowing up guns etc...........my motto is, as long as the brass contains the pressure and the case is reusable for 3-5 loads it is safe. This standard of loading was set down in writing many years ago by a gentleman with much greater exposure than I and several books to his credit, so it isn't just me, you might recognize his name..........Bob Hagel........I might add PO Ackley was also a firm proponent of getting the full capability from a cartridge and had a lot to do with his AI design, so he could increase pressure and reduce bolt face thrust to gain the greatest possible capability from a given case size.
But what do I know, "just another moron that keeps adding powder till something gives" is how I have been characterized by some here. So all I have to say to that is "Let the games begin", let's see what gives and where............
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I hope (and I'm sure it will be) an honest review. As long as you don't try to make a .375 Weatherby out of it and stick with velocity of a case with an extra 5 grain of capacity, I don't see how you could be disappointed.

Most modern gunwriters will tell you to take Hagel's and Ackley's data with a grain of salt. A lot of their pet loads were later tested with proper equipment and found to be way over acceptable limits.
 
bcsteve said:
I hope (and I'm sure it will be) an honest review. As long as you don't try to make a .375 Weatherby out of it and stick with velocity of a case with an extra 5 grain of capacity, I don't see how you could be disappointed.

Most modern gunwriters will tell you to take Hagel's and Ackley's data with a grain of salt. A lot of their pet loads were later tested with proper equipment and found to be way over acceptable limits.
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And what does that tell you about modern gunwriters...........Sorry, but I'll take Hagel and Ackley any day over the modern crop of lawyer fearing, both hands over their a$$, gunwriters !!!
 
Yeah, by today's standards their loads definitely were not safe...but, of course, by today's standards, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is safe. Every product, every sport, every recreational activity, everything we see, hear, do, eat, drink, sit on, sleep in, wear, drive, ride or play with...everything...must be dumbed down and sanitized so that some idiot doesn't get an ouchie due to his own carelessness and lack of common sense.

We're lucky that shooting and reloading are accepted practices that started in days gone by and continued on to present times...because if they hadn't, and someone today suggested that we start to buy gunpowder in big jugs to take home and stuff into cartridge casings in our basements, he would be certified as insane and locked up.
 
jjohnwm said:
Yeah, by today's standards their loads definitely were not safe...but, of course, by today's standards, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is safe. Every product, every sport, every recreational activity, everything we see, hear, do, eat, drink, sit on, sleep in, wear, drive, ride or play with...everything...must be dumbed down and sanitized so that some idiot doesn't get an ouchie due to his own carelessness and lack of common sense.

We're lucky that shooting and reloading are accepted practices that started in days gone by and continued on to present times...because if they hadn't, and someone today suggested that we start to buy gunpowder in big jugs to take home and stuff into cartridge casings in our basements, he would be certified as insane and locked up.
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So very true, but back in the early 80's, an older gent brought into my local gun shop a Remington 788 in 22-250 that had a stuck bolt he could not open. The gunsmith (A BRNO Master trained) took 2 hrs. to free up the action and open the bolt. The brazed on bolt handle was the first thing that popped off and he finally had to resort to heating the action and pipe wrench the bolt out.

All nine locking lugs on that bolt were set back more than 1/32" and the cartridge case had literally imprinted the name " Winchester 22-250" into the bolt face. The primer pocket was almost spread out to the rim diameter. Eek!

When the guy showed up to get his now, ruined gun a day or so later, he was asked what he loaded it with. The moron said that he loaded it with IMR4895 that he'd ground up in a mortar & pestil to get more of it into the case to obtain (In his fooked up mind) a higher velocity! Ain't that a nice way to make dynamite!

We figured at the time that "Jean Luc Retard's" load exceeded 200,000 psi. f:P:f:P:f:P:

So there ya go boys and girls. Hot rodding goofs craving the fastest things around will sometimes make
uber blunders due to not having a fookin' clue as how to due it. Research and careful work is the key.

Being the quickest ain't the way to do it folks. Oy Vey!
 
Shell Shucker, there is one in every crowd.... years ago I worked with an ' experienced ' handloader who used to compare burning rates of powder by touching a match to a large spoon full of a given powder, worked great till one day he blew his eyebrows off.
 
c-fbmi said:
And what does that tell you about modern gunwriters...........Sorry, but I'll take Hagel and Ackley any day over the modern crop of lawyer fearing, both hands over their a$$, gunwriters !!!
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I know you like to push the limits so I'm not going to start an argument with you but those modern gunwriters didn't make up the results they just reported actual facts that was found in major ammo company ballistic labs with state of the art equipment. Either way, your results will be interesting.
 
Nope, no argument here, but I have often wondered what criteria SAAMI uses to come up with their maximum stated pressures for each cartridge. Why is that the maximum pressure, says who, what is the weakest link in the pressure testing. By what criteria does one cartridge get assigned 55000 psi and another 62500 psi and yet another 48000 psi. It seems just as arbitrary as one roads speed limit being 80 kph another 100 kph and yet another 110 kph, and yet my Ferrari will do 300 kph. Is it safe at 150 kph, almost certainly as long as I know how to read the road and know the handling characteristics of my car, quite probably even at 200 kph.........follow my meaning.......and yet there are people I would not feel safe with at 80 kph. Speed limits are arbitrary and SAAMI pressure limits are arbitrary as well and can be quite safely exceeded if one knows how to read his brass. But no one here ever exceeds the speed limits do they? :p:p;)
 
c-fbmi said:
Nope, no argument here, but I have often wondered what criteria SAAMI uses to come up with their maximum stated pressures for each cartridge. Why is that the maximum pressure, says who, what is the weakest link in the pressure testing. By what criteria does one cartridge get assigned 55000 psi and another 62500 psi and yet another 48000 psi. It seems just as arbitrary as one roads speed limit being 80 kph another 100 kph and yet another 110 kph, and yet my Ferrari will do 300 kph. Is it safe at 150 kph, almost certainly as long as I know how to read the road and know the handling characteristics of my car, quite probably even at 200 kph.........follow my meaning.......and yet there are people I would not feel safe with at 80 kph. Speed limits are arbitrary and SAAMI pressure limits are arbitrary as well and can be quite safely exceeded if one knows how to read his brass. But no one here ever exceeds the speed limits do they? :p:p;)
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SAMMI specs are based on pressure limits of both the case of the cartridge and action that it is normally designed to be used in.

Factors such as headspace and material strength of the action, along with a bunch of testing using pressure testing equipment with many different loads are checked and measured to insure a reasonable tolerance for safety. Many, if not all powders used in the North American market are used to help determine their basic standards. European powders and components are tested as well.

This process ain't cheap, and eats up a large amount of time and cost for each cartridge tested. If it wasn't for SAMMI, the buttwipes in the insurance companies would have us using nothing more powerful than Daisy air guns!

As for vehicles, tires and brakes are the key for safe speed ratings along with suspension testing to get a
standard set by the factories that make 'em. Again, pushed by insurance companies, vehicles don't have
rod actuated, wood brake shoes or acetylene gas headlights anymore. Oy Vey.

I'm lucky if my '92 Suzuki Sidekick gets 100kph with a tailwind!;)
 
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