38 short colt from 627

JohnnyMac said:
John in BC, I'm not sure what division I'd shoot it in. We used to have IDPA up here and I was shooting a 625 in ESR but our fearless IDPA organizer got banned from IDPA so I think we're making the move to IPSC. I did my black badge 10 or so years ago but never registered as we didn't have IPSC up here so I'm not really aware of all the divisions. I just picked up a 627 VComp which I plan on shooting mostly without the comp but I'm not sure what division it would put me in. I have a feeling the vcomp would put me in a tougher division which isn't a real concern for me as most of my shooting is just the weekly fun night and if I do enter any serious matches I'd probably shoot 1911 anyway or I could opt for my model 19 if I want to shoot revolver (if I ever get it back from the gunsmith).

NorthCoast Bigbore - ya I'd be using a .358 calibre bullet. Still haven't found a load I'd work with yet still researching and debating if I want to go down that path or just stick with 38 special (which I have lots of brass and bullets for). The only thing I've figured out so far is that I can get 38 short colt brass from Double Tap Sports now just need to find a bullet and a load. Like I said before my main concern is safety then I'd be looking for accuracy and hopefully a load that isn't going to gum up my cylinders or be a real pita for when I do want to shoot 38 special.
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The V-comp would put you in Open. You won't win a heck of a lot but you will have a lot of fun.

Yes Double Tap sells the brass but it is backordered. I have been waiting for mine for some time.

I have cut some .38Sp cases down to .825" to play with. Works pretty good once you get a system worked out.

Anyhow have fun however you decide to play the game :)

John
 
Do you just use normal 38 special reloading dies with the short cases?

Are there any problems with anything bottoming out or getting stuck?
 
Hey John in BC do you have any load recipes preferably with either 231, titegroup, trailboss or unique (that's what I have on hand).


Dexter - from what I can tell you'll be wanting to use a 38special sizing die and for everything else use 9mm dies.
 
I have to wonder how well this would shoot in a .357. From rooting around a bit I found a spec for the case length for the .38 SC of .762. Compared to the case length of 1.290 this is a whopping great 0.528. And I'm guessing that the chamber throat is a couple or more thou ahead of that. So let's call it a case mouth to chamber step of .530.

In checking my stock of .357 bullets the one with the longest measurement from the cannelure groove to the rear face is only 0.375 give or take a couple of thou.

So we're talking about a minimum of 1/8 inch of unsupported flight where the bullet is unguided while still in the chamber with the ability of the hot burning gases to pass around the bullet and into the bore ahead of it. This does not bode well for either accuracy or chamber leading issues if you're not using jacketed rounds.

I know we're "only" talking IPSC or IDPA where accuracy does not need to meet bullseye performance by a pretty good stretch. But is it possible to get even decent accuracy from this sort of setup?

It would seem like a true .38Spl gun with a chamber that is 1.160 or so long would serve better as the bullet would have only a few thou of unsupported flight between the back face leaving the case and the bullet entering the chamber throat.
 
BCRider said:
I have to wonder how well this would shoot in a .357. From rooting around a bit I found a spec for the case length for the .38 SC of .762. Compared to the case length of 1.290 this is a whopping great 0.528. And I'm guessing that the chamber throat is a couple or more thou ahead of that. So let's call it a case mouth to chamber step of .530.

In checking my stock of .357 bullets the one with the longest measurement from the cannelure groove to the rear face is only 0.375 give or take a couple of thou.

So we're talking about a minimum of 1/8 inch of unsupported flight where the bullet is unguided while still in the chamber with the ability of the hot burning gases to pass around the bullet and into the bore ahead of it. This does not bode well for either accuracy or chamber leading issues if you're not using jacketed rounds.

I know we're "only" talking IPSC or IDPA where accuracy does not need to meet bullseye performance by a pretty good stretch. But is it possible to get even decent accuracy from this sort of setup?

It would seem like a true .38Spl gun with a chamber that is 1.160 or so long would serve better as the bullet would have only a few thou of unsupported flight between the back face leaving the case and the bullet entering the chamber throat.
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As usual a very interesting post :)

Only thing is I have seen and shot .38 Sp cases shortened down to 9mm length and they performed very well indeed :)

As the saying goes....the proof is in the pudding.

John

ps I started cutting down .38Sp brass but then I was at a match and was talking to another revolver shooter and he was using .38 short colt brass so...... I ordered some. If it doesnt show up within a month or so I will go back to shortening the long stuff :) jr
 
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John in B.C. said:
As usual a very interesting post :).....
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THANKYOU! I'm not often accused of being "interesting". Well.... other than in the same sort of manner that a tornado or flood is called "interesting" by some weather guy.... :D

As you say the proof is in the pudding. While I would not expect the combination to do well at a precision target match we all know that the "Run & Gun" shooting events do not require the utmost in accuracy from the gun to do well.

In the meantime how far down have you shaved your .38Spl brass? And I take it you're shooting them in a .357Mag chambered gun?
 
BCRider said:
I know we're "only" talking IPSC or IDPA.....
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As mentioned earlier, .38 Colt Short is a 'no go' in IDPA. And in IPSC, where there is Major and Minor scoring, Revolver Division is dominated by .45 ACP chambered S&W 625s. (as an aside, I load .45 GAP brass to Major PF for my 5" 625 for IPSC/USPSA)

Where .38 Colt Short is VERY popular is in ICORE. (no Major/Minor and min PF is 120) Furthermore, in ICORE accuracy is critical since the scoring system mandates a full second added to the shooter's time for each point down and 50 yd 'standards' are not uncommon. Nevertheless, .38 Colt Short loaded brass in moonclipped 7 and 8 rd .357 Mag chambered revolvers (S&W 686+ and S&W 627PC) are 'de rigueur' in both Open and Limited divisions.

Again, 'the proof is in the pudding'.
 
BCRider said:
THANKYOU! I'm not often accused of being "interesting". Well.... other than in the same sort of manner that a tornado or flood is called "interesting" by some weather guy.... :D

As you say the proof is in the pudding. While I would not expect the combination to do well at a precision target match we all know that the "Run & Gun" shooting events do not require the utmost in accuracy from the gun to do well.

In the meantime how far down have you shaved your .38Spl brass? And I take it you're shooting them in a .357Mag chambered gun?
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I am using S&W 686's 4.2" barrels. The rounds I tried out were cut down to the same length as 9mm. brass.

I set my drill press to 0.825". No idea why :) I just like how they look. So far that is as far as I have gone. Once I discovered I could buy brass instead I dropped that project for now.

As far as how competitve .38's loaded to minor power factor are?? There is a gentleman who hangs out in our our part of the world who regularly beat all comers (including major power factor 625's & 610's) shooting these same 9mm length, minor pf, rounds.

John
 
John in B.C. said:
As far as how competitve .38's loaded to minor power factor are?? There is a gentleman who hangs out in our our part of the world who regularly beat all comers (including major power factor 625's & 610's) shooting these same 9mm length, minor pf, rounds.

John
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Any fish can appear big in the very, very, small pond that is northern BC. How do you think this individual would do against real revolver Grand Masters in USPSA or ICORE? 'Not so well' would be my guess.....
 
The Breeze said:
Any fish can appear big in the very, very, small pond that is northern BC. How do you think this individual would do against real revolver Grand Masters in USPSA or ICORE? 'Not so well' would be my guess.....
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Well if they ever show up at a match around here I guess it will matter. But until they do..............................................................

John
 
John in B.C. said:
The V-comp would put you in Open. You won't win a heck of a lot but you will have a lot of fun.

Yes Double Tap sells the brass but it is backordered. I have been waiting for mine for some time.

I have cut some .38Sp cases down to .825" to play with. Works pretty good once you get a system worked out.

Anyhow have fun however you decide to play the game :)

John
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Shooting any revolver with more than 6 rounds loaded puts you in open, whether you have a comp or not
 
you are right, my error. i tend too view the pair interchangabley as they have not a nickels difference between them other then the bullet used (healed vs inside lubed)
 
Really?! can you give me ruling on that? At my BB this summer they told me 627 went right to open, no other options...i was not a happy camper! I most certianly wish you to be correct! (or does ontario have it's own weird rules...not that THAT would surprise me)
 
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