.380 vs 9mm
- Thread starter dante_mags
- Start date
carsmovies
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Mississauga, Ontario
9mm by a significant margin.
One other point, that a lot of people don't get if they have not spent much time shooting .380, is that the "felt recoil" is generally more with .380 than 9mm with a lot .380 pistols - but this is not the cartridge, it is the straight blowback design. Straight blowback is great in .22LR, .25 and .32, when it gets up to .380 is gets really snappy. In 9mm Luger it would slowly break the gun apart in most designs, hence why you don't see that.
This new .380 from GLOCK that they are talking about down in the States, that looks really cool for a number of reasons... one of the big ones being that it has a mechanism that the recoil of the pistol must "unlock" before the slide begins to travel to the rear (same as all GLOCKs and most modern pistols). That must be an incredibly soft shooting little pistol. Much softer shooting than the traditional straight blowbacks like the PP/PPK, Makarov, SIG 230/232, Mauser HSC, etc.
Sadly .380 is just about dead in this country, as I don't think there is a single design of .380 pistol that has a barrel longer 105mm... oh, no wait, there is the Beretta 86... but there are legions of them that are less than 4inch, so all we really have left is old 12(6)'s and old reclaimed prohib's with stickout barrels (or new Mak's with stickout barrels).
This new .380 from GLOCK that they are talking about down in the States, that looks really cool for a number of reasons... one of the big ones being that it has a mechanism that the recoil of the pistol must "unlock" before the slide begins to travel to the rear (same as all GLOCKs and most modern pistols). That must be an incredibly soft shooting little pistol. Much softer shooting than the traditional straight blowbacks like the PP/PPK, Makarov, SIG 230/232, Mauser HSC, etc.
Sadly .380 is just about dead in this country, as I don't think there is a single design of .380 pistol that has a barrel longer 105mm... oh, no wait, there is the Beretta 86... but there are legions of them that are less than 4inch, so all we really have left is old 12(6)'s and old reclaimed prohib's with stickout barrels (or new Mak's with stickout barrels).
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
I spent a little time with an old Llama 380 a month ago. It was essentially a mini 1911, the barrel locked up similar as well. Very pleasant to shoot despite it's small size. I started a thread a while ago, but I'm too lazy to find the link.
Yah, you are right. There are a few... but you can pretty much count the 9mm Luger pistols using a straight blowback on your fingers.... I would think they are generally going to have some type exaggerated large slide. The other one people always bring up with this topic is the Hi-Point C-9 type pistol... which also always comes up very quickly in discussions on the ugliest pistol ever made!
Just like how so many 9mm designs were adapted for .40S&W (sometimes with very poor results in the early days), I think a lot of .380 pistols are just adapted .32 ACP/7.65 Browning designs. Kind of hard to believe now... given that they have bullets in the 60-73gr. area... but the 7.65 Browning was "The" police calibre in Europe for much of the 20th Century. Even in Germany... land of the 9mm P-08 and P-38... police agencies were still buying 7.65 HK4's in the 1960s.... until what happened at the Olympics in 1972 and they decided to get serious with, among other things, GSG9 and the P7 pistol.
Opening up a different can of worms here.... but one other thing the original poster may have wondered about... 9mm is .35 calibre right? Is .380 a .38 calibre? No. They both use .355 bullets (9mm bullets). Just like how the .38 Special actually uses .357 bullets, ".380" is just a misleading name.
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| 380 ACP | 21,500 |
| 9mm Luger | 35,000 |
| 9mm Luger +P | 38,500 |
| 9mm Luger +P+ ** | 39,000-41,000 |
| 9mm NATO *** | 42,000-44,000 |
** No Set SAAMI value for 9mm +P+ ammo pressures - manufacturer pressures may vary
*** 9mm NATO pressures for military ammo (now you can see why the old 9mm ball used to beat the #### out of the SIG's...)
Many situations where the bullet diameter does not equal the actual caliber are caused by the origin of the cartridge - some were black powder calibers using heal based bullets (like a modern 22 LR) some were measured 'groove to groove', as opposed to 'land to land'. Some - even today, are just weird - if you have an early CZ 75 with the 'tropical' finish on it and can't hit anything, it's because many of those guns were ordered with 357 barrels. Switch to a 124grain / 357 diameter bullet and they're very accurate. The guns were ordered for Indonesia, and the story was that the Indonesians were set up to make 357 bullets, so they ordered the guns to match.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You must have physically removed your subscription to that thread.
You also failed to inform us whether your Llama 380 was prohib' or restricted classification.
http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm
That will give SAAMI pressures -- certain non SAAMI cartridges or loadings need to be gained elsewhere.
That will give SAAMI pressures -- certain non SAAMI cartridges or loadings need to be gained elsewhere.
Grand Power has .380 ACP guns that could be imported, but we make them primarily for the markets that don't allow 9x19.
Due to requests from Brazil and Mexico, we are bringing out a variant of the X-Caliber in both 9x21 (Brazil) and .380 (Mexico)
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
I was under the impression that the muzzle energy limit for handguns in Brazil is 300 ft/lb which basically means .38 Special or .380 is the maximum. Those are the most powerful calibres allowed in Mexico as well but for different reasons, the law and regulations basically classify anything over that as for military use only.
Anyway in Mexico the Glock 25 is really popular and there are .380 versions of the IWI Jericho and Tanfoglio guns.
What I never understand is why .380 costs about 50% more than 9mm in the US, apparently .380 is the most popular selling pistol calibre in the US, that's the only explanation I can think of.
If you think about it, case study in the stupidity of gun laws. Glock 25 is legal in Mexico but is not legal in Canada and cannot be legally imported into the US either. A stock Glock 19 is legal in the US but is not in Canada or Mexico. An Izhevsk MP-446 9mm pistol is legal in Canada, but banned from import into the US and is illegal in Mexico.
So Mexico bans anything too powerful, Canada bans anything with a barrel too short and the US bans anything from import that is "non-sporting" or from certain foreign countries.
And we're all a lot safer as a result, I'm sure.
Anyway in Mexico the Glock 25 is really popular and there are .380 versions of the IWI Jericho and Tanfoglio guns.
What I never understand is why .380 costs about 50% more than 9mm in the US, apparently .380 is the most popular selling pistol calibre in the US, that's the only explanation I can think of.
If you think about it, case study in the stupidity of gun laws. Glock 25 is legal in Mexico but is not legal in Canada and cannot be legally imported into the US either. A stock Glock 19 is legal in the US but is not in Canada or Mexico. An Izhevsk MP-446 9mm pistol is legal in Canada, but banned from import into the US and is illegal in Mexico.
So Mexico bans anything too powerful, Canada bans anything with a barrel too short and the US bans anything from import that is "non-sporting" or from certain foreign countries.
And we're all a lot safer as a result, I'm sure.
The felt recoil of a .380 comes from the design of the pistols it's found in(most of which are evil, like ghostie says.), not the cartridge. And neither has "stopping power". No pistol cartridge does. Think physics.
The HK VP70 is a piece of junk. It's the only pistol I've ever seen that was panned by one of the gun rags, in 40 plus years. Guns and Ammo, I think it was, called it a Jam-a-matic. Originally designed as a machine pistol, it had a crappy trigger and wouldn't shoot worth beans.
The HK VP70 is a piece of junk. It's the only pistol I've ever seen that was panned by one of the gun rags, in 40 plus years. Guns and Ammo, I think it was, called it a Jam-a-matic. Originally designed as a machine pistol, it had a crappy trigger and wouldn't shoot worth beans.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Yeah I always avoid guns with straight blowback. I've had two of the supposedly "best" .380s, a P230 which was awful, only really clean burning ammo could be used because it shot loads of carbon up my arm otherwise and also an H&K P7K3 which was also pretty crappy because to make it work reliably it has an oil-filled buffer in it that has to be changed every 2,000 rounds. Try finding one of those buffers.
I tried a VP70 as well, really really heavy trigger.
I tried a VP70 as well, really really heavy trigger.
