$400 Chinese copy of the VZ58 (CZ858, ETC.)
- Thread starter bobbynewmark
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Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
Things I read on here about the gun, the Chinese couldn't do worse.
Grizz
Maybe you're looking at the .223 version. Cause the 7.62x39 is about as reliable as anything that was ever produced that's called a rifle.
They should have never produced a .223 version, absolutely no reason for it.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This comment makes about as much sense as McDonalds' salads.
China, with the largest population of any country on earth, is certainly not full of people making large sums of money. A select upper echelon do, it's rapidly growing, but we're still talking the minority by measures of hundreds of millions of people. Communism is still how the country runs, absolutely, it's no Western democracy. The guns made by the consortium of manufactures Norinco heads can't even be owned by their own citizens, good free country.
Finally, just because so much of the crap pushed on us today is Chinese, why does it mean I have to take my support away from good Western firearms manufacturers? That's a beyond tenuous assertion. We make the best guns hands down in the Western world, and to say because our cell phones only come assembled in China we should buy our guns from there is absurd.
Support the Western firearms manufacturers, they need it and are one of the strongest bases of support that we have.
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
This comment makes about as much sense as McDonalds' salads.
China, with the largest population of any country on earth, is certainly not full of people making large sums of money. A select upper echelon do, it's rapidly growing, but we're still talking the minority by measures of hundreds of millions of people. Communism is still how the country runs, absolutely, it's no Western democracy. The guns made by the consortium of manufactures Norinco heads can't even be owned by their own citizens, good free country.
Finally, just because so much of the crap pushed on us today is Chinese, why does it mean I have to take my support away from good Western firearms manufacturers? That's a beyond tenuous assertion. We make the best guns hands down in the Western world, and to say because our cell phones only come assembled in China we should buy our guns from there is absurd.
Support the Western firearms manufacturers, they need it and are one of the strongest bases of support that we have.
I have more friends in China then I do here. Capitalism is slowly taking over especially in the Cantonese areas of China such as Hong Kong where the Mainland Chinese government makes no laws for them. Hong Kong makes there own laws. Look at are Universities here in Canada. 50% - 60% of are universities are foreign students and about 80% of those are from China and they pay double the tuition fee Canadians do. Chinese students pay about $15,000 - $20,000 a year for there tuition fee. To top that off, you usually see them driving around in brand new Audi and BMW cars they've leased for the time there hear and there residents isn't Student Res, Its usually a nice condo.
Now, I'm not saying to support the Chinese manufactures. Just stating that they are, by far, the richest country in the world. Its where all the money is, and people here in the western world still choose to deny that.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No denial, I'm afraid you're considering the extreme minority, as there are 1.35 billion people in China, almost all are very poor. There are also millions of wealthy Chinese, but that is a tiny fraction of the population. The average net worth in China is $11,267 (PPP), Canada nationwide is $90,000 PPP but in Alberta or Vancouver, average household net worth is just under $600,000 (cut it by 2 or 3 for PPP).
Honestly CZ 858 requires sophisticated metallurgical skills. Just have a look on VZ 58 from CSA how many broke so far because the receiver cracked or the bolt went apart. If they would be made in China Knowing their metal quality and the price we are talking about under $400. They would one time use guns
You mean those crappy forged 5100 series tool steel 1911 frames? Or are you referring to the forged M14 receivers? I'm not saying I like the idea of a $400 copy of a $650 gun, (seems totally pointless to me) but the Chinese producers cannot be faulted from a metalurgical perspective. Colt 1911 frames are made from lower quality material than Norincos, the vast majority of US makers produce cast frames that are lower quality than Colt, and Chinese hardchrome is some of the best anywhere.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think he's talking more like the multiple blown up M14s... the multiple recent catastrophic bolt failures... the cracked M14 gas cylinders... the blown up Norc shotguns... Sure, the can produce good steel the majority of the time, but their quality control is the worst on the market. The machining also leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. Doesn't equate to "good steel" to me if you're not sure what you're getting. I have a blown up Norc M14 on my bench I'm hoping to get metallurgic testing done on.
Proven by whom? The wars I've been to nobody wants to use a VZ. They typically have a value of less than half of used AKs (and the VZs are new). I suspect the only reason they ended up in Afghan and Iraq for newly formed units was that they were available at discount and nobody in the .gov contracting departments knew any better.
laughingswordfish
Member
- Location
- Salmon Arm, BC
Don't quite get your talk on dollar stores. A couple of companies are now dominating the market
"After continued strong market performance, Dollarama opened a record 81 new stores in 2012, and intends to open 75 to 80 this year, Mr. Rossy said. It has 785 locations across Canada." Recent quarterly earnings were a *net* 77 million.
The items sold for more than a dollar are items they never carried in the past (i.e. they could never sell a full sized hand saw for $1 but they can sell it for $3
And... Africa? once the political unrest settles down? You really think it will settle down any time in the near or not so near future?
On people claiming to not support Chinese products because they are a communist state... They aren't communist anymore - come on, how can you look at the country and claim it is a communist state? If you talk to people from China they can explain it.. basically the culture doesn't allow for the dramatic about face seen in Russia - while in name China may be communist it is ridiculous to think of them as the old school idea of communist.
The Czech military, the Slovacs, as well as some Yugoslavs. The Czechs were allowed to keep them rather than adopt AK's due to the quality of the design, etc.
Never mind that almost all tungsten carbide comes from China now. I was taking tour of a German tool making plant in the Black Forrest, we were somewhat hurried past the storage area of all the containers with Chinese markings of carbide.
Well here is why I have no problem buying Chinese stuff: If the Chinese people really wanted to change their government, they could. Throughout history, there has been no government or establishment that can withstand the majority of their population revolting. This means, that to some extent the Chinese are happy enough with their government to not force drastic change.
