410 rifled choke
- Thread starter brybenn
- Start date
Back in the day, there were several companies that produced specially made barrels with smooth bores up to the last 3-6 inches of the barrel, which were rifled. This was termed "PARADOX" rifling.
I had a ten gauge with paradox rifling. Lovely British shotgun by an obscure maker and it used all brass shells. It was meant for black powder charges and wasn't "nitro proofed"
The rifling was very shallow, around .004 in. This was because the rifle was meant for shot shells but a large round ball or hollow base conical could be loaded if needed.
The rifle was a bit quirky to shoot because the recoil felt extended. There was the initial recoil that was almost indistinguishable from when the solids engaged the rifling.
I believe some of the dangerous game rifles, used by professional hunters, also had Paradox style rifling.
please don't post crap in someone other's thread
the op has a 410 shotgun and wants a rifled choke.
can you be of help?
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think the more important question that should be asked here: What Canadian available 410 slug is worthy of a rifled choke?
I am not trying to be mean spirited. It's just a valid question regarding this subject.
Everything 410 interesting and worthy are mostly American available only.
I am not trying to be mean spirited. It's just a valid question regarding this subject.
Everything 410 interesting and worthy are mostly American available only.
I was planning on making a mold and casting my own slugs and trying to see what i could get accuracy wise with 41 cal pistol bullets. As i said its not practical i just want to satisfy my curiousity. I know some companies make rifled choke tubes. Briley for example makes them in 10 and 12ga both in twist and straight rifling
I thought id tey a rifled choke first if that didnt go well id look for a 410 handy rifle and stub a 41 cal barrel on it and has it chambered and throated for brass cases and pistol bullets crimped in place
I thought id tey a rifled choke first if that didnt go well id look for a 410 handy rifle and stub a 41 cal barrel on it and has it chambered and throated for brass cases and pistol bullets crimped in place
I’ll be honest, i don’t believe the physics of this will work.
You could only quantify this by high speed camera. I dont believe a rifled choke in the last 3” of a thin tubed barrel, with light rifling, will ever have the ability to create any spin on a projectile. And if it was deep enough, and tight enough to do so, the pressures would be insurmountable and probably see a barrel failure. Your essentially slamming the brakes on an object in motion after it traveled 2 1/2 feet, Then trying to exert another Force onto it.
Be careful, wear glasses and a helmet!
You could only quantify this by high speed camera. I dont believe a rifled choke in the last 3” of a thin tubed barrel, with light rifling, will ever have the ability to create any spin on a projectile. And if it was deep enough, and tight enough to do so, the pressures would be insurmountable and probably see a barrel failure. Your essentially slamming the brakes on an object in motion after it traveled 2 1/2 feet, Then trying to exert another Force onto it.
Be careful, wear glasses and a helmet!
there are rifled chokes that do exactly what you describe
look up the Saiga 410 with a rifled choke on you tube and how much it improves it's accuracy
Well i took your advice, was it the video with the guy with bad english? Wasnt much evidence in that one lol. But i did read an awful lot and came to the conclusion, that the same accuracy improvement that some have claimed was also obtained from installing a standard choke, so to me there seems to be no rotation enacted on the projectile. But hey, this hobby is about trying new things, let us know how it all works out.
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As was pointed out early in the thread, the Paradox guns were used over 100 years ago. Whether or not any spin was imparted, I can't say but examination of a recovered bullet would determine this and makers in the 1800's knew about recovering and examining bullets. Rifled choke tubes were offered, briefly, by Remington, and seemed to work well with sabot slugs.
Chambering a 410 for brass cases etc. sounds a lot like a 405 Winchester.
Chambering a 410 for brass cases etc. sounds a lot like a 405 Winchester.
Just for clarification, I was only able to recover bullets from the snow backstop. They all showed that the rifling had been fully engaged. The bullets all had hollow bases, similar to those used in the 577 Snider. To me that would indicate spin had been induced.
Taofledermaus (utube star) has a Chronos high speed camera and has shown that rifled chokes do impart spin
let's focus on the op's request: have you seen any 410 chokes for sale anywhere in north america?
I'm interested too
let's focus on the op's request: have you seen any 410 chokes for sale anywhere in north america?
I'm interested too
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Regards the straight rifling on screw in chokes several choke manufacturers offer this for turkey hunters.
They discovered this tended to help create an even birdshot pattern at extended ranges.
Quite interesting really.
Im not interested in shot really. The main goal is basically a 40cal rifle thats classed as a shotgun with similar ballistics to a 40sw pistol cartridge.
I hunt in a caliber restricted zone. Rifles must be no larger than 275 caliber but shotguns are allowed. Id like to experiment and see if brass cased 410 shooting slugs could be accurate enough to take a 50 yard shot on a coyote. I do alot of timber calling on small wood lots and fence lines. 12ga #4 buck works great but sometimes they sneak in and that load really wrecks em. A hardcast 410 slug should be more pelt friendly and still allow i hope a clean kill to 50 yards. Hit harder than a 22 mag for sure. Plus its something to play with. If it fails i still have a plain old 410. If it shows promise i may look into stubbing a barrel for with a fully rifled barrel.
I hunt in a caliber restricted zone. Rifles must be no larger than 275 caliber but shotguns are allowed. Id like to experiment and see if brass cased 410 shooting slugs could be accurate enough to take a 50 yard shot on a coyote. I do alot of timber calling on small wood lots and fence lines. 12ga #4 buck works great but sometimes they sneak in and that load really wrecks em. A hardcast 410 slug should be more pelt friendly and still allow i hope a clean kill to 50 yards. Hit harder than a 22 mag for sure. Plus its something to play with. If it fails i still have a plain old 410. If it shows promise i may look into stubbing a barrel for with a fully rifled barrel.
brybenn, what type of 410 are you using?? What you want is doable. No reason at all that a piece of rifled pistol barrel of appropriate diameter can't be installed on a barrel, with external threads, at the muzzle.
If you have a shotgun with a heavy barrel, such as the recent very strong Harrington and Richardson single shots, it may also be expedient to drill and polish the barrel to .429 or slightly under to help build up pressure for better velocity.
I measured the muzzle diameters on mine (OD-.585/ID-,385) and there would easily be enough metal left to keep things safe. That's .022 all the the way around or .044 total. That would leave you with .076in of metal all the way around, which should be adequate for your needs, as long as your aren't loading to maximum pressures. Lead bullets would help as well or even cast round balls, which can be quite accurate out to 50 yards.
If you're planning on using shot cups to hold the bullets, similar to a Sabot then don't consider the reboring option.
If you have a shotgun with a heavy barrel, such as the recent very strong Harrington and Richardson single shots, it may also be expedient to drill and polish the barrel to .429 or slightly under to help build up pressure for better velocity.
I measured the muzzle diameters on mine (OD-.585/ID-,385) and there would easily be enough metal left to keep things safe. That's .022 all the the way around or .044 total. That would leave you with .076in of metal all the way around, which should be adequate for your needs, as long as your aren't loading to maximum pressures. Lead bullets would help as well or even cast round balls, which can be quite accurate out to 50 yards.
If you're planning on using shot cups to hold the bullets, similar to a Sabot then don't consider the reboring option.
Backcountryal
CGN Regular
- Location
- New Zealand
A few years back, a very good friend of mine tried rifled barrels and rifled chokes on a number of different shotguns. He did this to write an article for a magazine for which he was the Associate Editor. With a fully rifled barrel he was consistently able to get 3 shots under 1.5moa at 100, and with a rifled choke he was able to consistently get under 3moa at 100. It may be almost impossible to find a rifled choke for a 410, but Im pretty confident a decent gunsmith or machinist could make you one to fit - anything is possible with the right amount of capital injection. Sounds like a fun project, look forward to hearing the results.
