.416 owners, the ultimate big game hunting cartridge?

Bolt thrust is a design consideration among others....M700 .416 RM & .338 LM have identical bolt lug dimensions & material properties? Bolt thrust is about 23% higher with .338 LP for whatever pressure vs .416 RM so bolt lugs /recesses should be stronger or M700 .338 LP operates with a lower safety factor?

I won't load my .416 Rigby beyond loading manual maximum level should be CIP 325 MPa or ANSI 52,000 psi max rated pressure however hot loading might be possible just not advisable.

My incoming muzzle break equipped .416 Wby Canadian Northern Magnum should be less hefty than my .416 Rigby better for hunting up on them thar avalanche tracks.

https://i.imgur.com/XaSo5zS.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/lvhq8b4.jpg / https://i.imgur.com/lYlV4SX.jpg
 
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I’ve had Rigbys in CZs and number ones. They can easily be loaded to near wby velocities. Thing is because you need way over 100 grains of powder to go there the recoil gets nasty, even in fairly heavy guns. Even for the biggest BC game I don’t want to pack anything over 9 lbs and preferably a fair bit less. The Remington can be done like that. Only a bit slower and 20 grains less powder make it a lot more shootable and packable. Oh and less capacity normally doesn’t equal more speed, all things being equal.
 
Rman said:
Dan, you can't say in one post that the 338 Lapua case capacity is lower than the 416 Rigby, and then in another say they are very close? ;) The Rigby case in a very round about way is the parent case for the 338 Lapua. The case capacities of the 416 Rigby are 127.5, the 416 Bee are 140, and for reference, the 416-338 Lapua Improved are 128.0

R.
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Yes it is the parent. Now compare the two. The 338 case is quite a bit smaller. And if the 416-improved opens up the case that much, well, I'd be surprised. I dont own an improved version of the Lapua though, so cannot directly compare them. - dan
 
Rman said:
To 4fifty8: Not sure what you're trying to say? Model 700's, for example, were chambered in 338 Lapua (same case diameter as 416 Rigby) and 416 Rem Mag... so bolt thrust must not have been an issue?
Thinking that 416 Rigby max pressure is rated lower because it is chambered in some older rifles, not because of bolt thrust. Think 45-70 in older levers, as compared to a Ruger No. 1

R.
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Sort of. The Rigby pressures were what they were due to the rifles it was originally chambered in, and British powders. Keep in mind the cartridge is close to (if not past) a century old. - dan
 
There would be zero issue taking a modern rifle in 416 Rigby to 65,000 psi, if the brass could handle it. From the looks of Dan's comments, the brass can handle it just fine as well. It is a monster of a case.
 
This article suggests that (but I won't⚠️) -

"The cartridge was originally designed for use with bulky strands of Cordite propellant, and today's handloaders can take advantage of that massive capacity. Most .416 Rigby rifles (currently available from CZ-USA, Dakota Arms, Montana Rifle Co., Ruger, and Sako) are built on robust, strong actions, and cartridge cases are stout. Cautious handloading can significantly increase the .416 Rigby's muzzle velocity.

A disclaimer is called for here. Reloading manuals do not provide high-pressure data for the .416 Rigby, and handloaders should proceed with extreme caution! Candidly, if you feel the need to shoot 400-grain 0.416-inch projectiles faster than 2,450 fps, you are better off with the .416 Weatherby."

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+HA...ANGEROUS-GAME+CARTRIDGES+OFFER...-a0523561477
 
Well... this kind of thing does happen quite a bit. Of course, you take the path that is best for you!
If a rifle receiver is designed to take 65,000 psi, and all of the other parameters that come with it, including bolt thrust, etc... then it really doesn't know what cartridge is being put inside of it. The Rigby, and many other cartridges like it, are old, which means there are a lot of old rifles still out there for them. A 303 British would be a great example here. 303 British max chamber pressures are listed at 49,000 psi. That is, in theory, the highest pressure, that the weakest rifle, chambered in 303 British can handle. Throw that same cartridge into a Model 700 or Ruger No. 1, and why would one be limited to the 49,000 psi ceiling?
The statement in your above post most definitely refers to the fact that they don't know what rifle you are using! How can they? So they must make the disclaimer.

R.
 
Ardent said:
Selby literally shot out the barrel on his .416 Rigby and sent it back for a rebarrel. Was built on a standard Mauser 98 by Rigby, with the feed ramp cut right up to the lower locking lug as they did. I doubt a .416 Rigby would present any challenge to any modern standard action.
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And, little known fact, Selby bought a Model 70 in 458 while the 416 was gone for the rebarrel job. He never went back to the Rigby when it returned to him and sold it after a few years.
 
Rman said:
There would be zero issue taking a modern rifle in 416 Rigby to 65,000 psi, if the brass could handle it. From the looks of Dan's comments, the brass can handle it just fine as well. It is a monster of a case.
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I've often wondered that, if a person wanted to work back from the 338 Lapua and use that brass to make 416 Rigby brass to take advantage of the thicker case web, would that make it safer to hoat to it's full potential.

That being said, Big Doug from Regina has loaded his RSM up hot to no ill effect and that was using (if memory serves) Norma brass. Might be much ado about nothing.
 
dan belisle said:
You can handload the 416 Rigby to the same ballistics as the 416 Wby, their case capacities are very close. - dan
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Exactly. Much like 45-70, and 7x57, to name a few. Rigby rifles started right at the end of blackpowder. If you have a modern, strong action the Rigby can handle some stomper loads, well beyond lawyer friendly load books. Usual, start low and watch for pressure signs.
 
BigUglyMan said:
I've often wondered that, if a person wanted to work back from the 338 Lapua and use that brass to make 416 Rigby brass to take advantage of the thicker case web, would that make it safer to hoat to it's full potential.

That being said, Big Doug from Regina has loaded his RSM up hot to no ill effect and that was using (if memory serves) Norma brass. Might be much ado about nothing.
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338 Lapua is a couple tenths of an inch shorter than the 416 parent case. - dan
 
What rifles was the 416 chambered in that could not handle high pressure?

I was under the impression that the magazine rifle big bore cartridges had low pressure limits because that is what a case jammed full of cordite produced not because of limitations of Mauser actions
 
The pressure limits were due to cordite's temperature sensitivity, not weak rifles. Tropical climates would raise the pressure to the point where it would cause extraction difficulties, particularly in double rifles and falling block single shots, that had rather weak primary extraction. Pressures were kept modest for the sake of reliability.
 
conor_90 said:
What rifles was the 416 chambered in that could not handle high pressure?

I was under the impression that the magazine rifle big bore cartridges had low pressure limits because that is what a case jammed full of cordite produced not because of limitations of Mauser actions
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Old Mauser 98's. Remember some of that early heat treating wasn't that great. The powder issue is true as well. - dan
 
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