444 Marlin

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bearhunter338-06

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I have a 444 Marlin, I am thinking of loading cast lead bullets for hunting with it. Is there any disadvantige to cast lead hunting bullets over the jacketed lead bullets.

Can any one give me some load information on lead bullets and where i can get some good cast lead hunting bullets for reloading.

Also is it true that I can shoot 410 rounds out of the 444 Marlin.

Thanks everyone.
 
I just reloaded some test loads yesterday with some of hunter64's hp cast bullet, some Hornady 300gr STX and Speer 300gr UC. Will probably try em out this week.
 
My primary "go to" bullet for hunting with the 444 Marlin is the Hornady 265grFP. There are a variety of cast bullets I get from two guys locally in the 240gr - 255gr weight range, both plain base for lighter loads as well as a couple of Gas Checked items for heavier the stuff. There is also a 325gr GC example I'm trying.

The only slight disadvantage with cast may be slightly lower velocities but if you use them within their limitations you shouldn't have a problem hunting with them.

A few sources of cast bullet load info you might find helpful is the;
  • Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Bullet Handbook.
  • RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1.
  • Beartooth Bullets website.
Hope that's of help to you:).
 
If you have a microgroove barrel you should be able to single load Rem 410 2.5 inch shells.(don't expect alot of accuracy here)

As for bullets as said above heavy cast may not stabilize out past 100 yards.

In mine Speer Unicor 300r are pretty accurate with a max load of H335&CCI 200 Primer. Starting load should be 53.5. Max load is 55.5.

Some of these rifles shoot very well at 100 yards but groups spread out big time @ 200.

You may have to do alot of experimenting.

You will get alot more help on this forum....it is the best when it comes to these firearms.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/
 
bearhunter338-06 said:
... Also is it true that I can shoot 410 rounds out of the 444 Marlin.

Thanks everyone.
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I used to have a .444 Marlin, and I never tried .410 shells in it, but I loaded my own shot loads in .444 Marlin brass. 15 grains of H110 or W296, seat a Winchester AA .410 wad with a pencil, fill up with shot, seat a .44 gas check on top (concave side up), push it down flush with the case mouth, and secure with a light roll crimp. It won't feed through the magazine but it duplicates the 2-1/2" .410 shell.
 
The trick to cast bullets in a .444 Marlin is they have to be pushed hard and sized right.

If you have a Micro groove barrel (older version) it will stabilize bullets up to 350 Grn no problem, from 350 to 400 it is iffy at best and no real advantage because the bullet takes up to much case room. Bullets must be sized to min or .431 and .432 is sometimes better depending on the rifle.

Big advantage is the bullet will not disintegrate upon impact like a .44 Mag pistol bullet will, some of the newer Hornady bullets have addressed this problem and there are other choices as stated above.

I have a 200 Gn solid bullet that I specifically designed to work in .444 Marlin rifle with the correct meplat to crimp groove distance that fly's along at 2400 fps and I can get groups of 1"-1.5" at 100 Meters no problem.

IM002126.jpg


Myself and one other buddy came up with a dual purpose bullet with three crimp grooves on it. One groove for .444 marlin rifles, one groove for .44 Mag winchester/marlin lever rifles and one groove for .44 Mag revolvers. The added advantage is we designed the mold for hollow point or solid by switching the pin around as in a Cramer style mold. Hollow Point is 295 Gn lubed/checked and about 330gn solid depending on your alloy of course.

444.jpg


Here again it has to be sized to .432 and pushed hard with IMR3031 or H322 and at 100 Meters about the same kind of accuracy can be achieved.

IM002125.jpg


With any lever action rifle as the barrel heats up it will change the point of impact slightly and I am sure if I shot one shot and let the rifle cool for 15 min. then shoot again I could get slightly better accuracy. I shot all 5 shots within 5 minutes tops.

If you would like to try either bullet drop me a line and I can send you some to see if you would like to try cast in your .444 Marlin.
 
One thing that I have found in load development with the .444 Marlin is that the point of impact will change more drastically then a 30 caliber lever rifle. I am not sure why but if your rifle loves a reload or factory load of a particular round you need to stick with that one for best hunting accuracy.

As I was developing loads with IMR3031 and H322 I noticed that one grain was all it took to put the point of impact as much as 5 inches one way or another at 100 meters. I covered the 4'x8' piece of plywood with paper and then put the targets on and as I was shooting sometimes the group would actually be off the target paper by a couple of inches.

Once you have found your rifles sweat spot stick with it and call it good. The 4 .444 Marlins that I own all love slightly different loadings but once found they will all have groups like I posted above.

It blows people away at the long range part of our club when they see me pull out a lever gun for the 200 and 300 meter ranges. With a 200 gn bullet going at 2400 fps you can add a few yards on to the "only good for 125 yard" crap that you here or read in the gun rags. It sure quietens the nay sayers down when I start ringing the 200 meter gong every time off hand with the big lever gun, lol.

I sight the rifle to be 3" high at 100 yards, zero at 200 yards and at 300 it is 13" low which is good enough for the areas that I go hunting in.

I have had a few requests for some lead bullets and I basically just charge actual shipping and a few extra bucks for beer money so about 20.00 shipped for 50 300 gn hollow points or about the same for 50 200 gn solids. Just let me know what size you want them at .431 or .432 the older microgrooves love .432 and the newer Ballard barrels love .431 for cast bullets.
 
I plan on using my 444 for deer,moose,elk and black beer, at ranges out to 150 yards. Not sure if I will scope the rifle yet. Which one of your bullets would you use for this purpose.
 
bearhunter338-06 said:
I plan on using my 444 for deer,moose,elk and black beer, at ranges out to 150 yards. Not sure if I will scope the rifle yet. Which one of your bullets would you use for this purpose.
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The 200 gn would work great for deer and black bear no problem and would be alright for elk and moose also. I have shot 3 moose and 2 deer with the 200 gn and the beauty of using a .44 cal bullet is it doesn't need to mushroom at all. I recovered one bullet from a moose two years ago and it measured .65" so there was a slight mushrooming effect.

In all honesty more moose have been taken with a .303 British then all the other calibers combined I would suppose. A typical .303 load is 180 grn at 2300 fps and if it mushrooms right it will get to about .6" with the retained weight. Now the 200 gn at 2400 fps will shoot flatter and have about 2500 ft/lbs of energy compared to the .303's at 2100 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

At 150 yards it will be more than enough for all 4 game species and when you think about it before WW1 most game in Canada were taken with a 30-30 or 38-55 or a 45/70 at the high end.
 
I found the original factory loadings with the 240gr somewhat lacking. I went to the Hornady 265grFN and found it to be a good reliable performer on Deer, Black Bear and Moose at the ranges you've mentioned.
 
Here are the loads I'm hoping to test this week.
In order:
- 265gr Hornady LeverEvolution
- 265gr Hornady IL
- 295gr HP Hard Cast by hunter64
- 300gr HP Hornady STX
- 300gr Speer Unicore

IMG_0572.jpg

IMG_0573.jpg
 
444shooter said:
I don't do much reloading for mine as the factory LeverEvolution is so darn accurate.
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:redface:I must admit, I haven't tried any of that 'stuff'. I have a bit of a hangup in that I think anything you feed a lever gun should have a big, soft flat nose;). It's probably great stuff, it's just that being from the 'pre-metric era':p, I have this aversion to putting anything with a 'pointy end' in a tubular magazine.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
:redface:I must admit, I haven't tried any of that 'stuff'. I have a bit of a hangup in that I think anything you feed a lever gun should have a big, soft flat nose;). It's probably great stuff, it's just that being from the 'pre-metric era':p, I have this aversion to putting anything with a 'pointy end' in a tubular magazine.
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I bet once you try them, you will be wondering why you waited so long ;)
 
444shooter said:
I bet once you try them, you will be wondering why you waited so long ;)
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You may well be right. So far the only lever gun I have that I use anything other than a FN bullet in is my 348WCF:). Other than that exception, my;
- Marlin 1894, 44-40............. FN, jacketed & cast
- Marlin 1895GS, 45-70..........FN, jacketed & cast
- Marlin 444S, 444.................FN, jacketed & cast
I don't knock those that do use the new LeverEvolution bullets but for me personally, I'm not trying to stretch out the capabilities of those lever calibers. For my use under those circumstances, I like that big flat nose and the results on game.
 
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