45-70 elk/moose gun

I've shot more rounds of 45-70 than most people. To me it's not a 300 yard hunting rifle. Even with light bullets to bump up the speed and ballistic reticles, there are about 75 better choices. Not saying it won't work, but it's the same sort of "why would you?" that I ask myself when I see some mope pedaling a bike on the highway while going on vacation. Sure, I can bike to Thunder Bay from my house, but there are several better modes of transportation.
 
I completely agree with you. If I'm going somewhere I know shots are going to be over 200 I'll take either my 308 or 338. But if I know I'll be walking bush the 45/70 comes with me hands down. It's just nice to know if you walk into a clearing and a longer shot presents itself that you are comfortable taking it.
 
hometownhero said:
I would cast and use these 530gr from noe

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Or for lighter 425gr (also available in hp)

460-425-RF.JPG
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I have the 425 gr mold for my SBL. I have the plain base version for these velocities. It comes in a little over 430 gr with pure wheel weights, must be the lead that occupies the place of the gas check grove. Groups under 2 inches at 100 yards at 1700 fps. Could push them quite a bit more, but the trade off in recoil isn't there. I leave them as cast at .461. After an initial run period of the barrel with jacketed bullets, cleaned the copper and acclimated the barrel to the cast lube, no leading.

And BTW, 2000 fps with the hornady 325gr factory ftx is a pipe dream in a 18.5 bbl. Closer to 1850 fps. Devastating on lung hits at closer ranges, I don't know about 100 plus yards. Hit the shoulder on bigger stuff...I wouldn't trust them from my limited experience. That is opinion only, not fact. Take it for what it's worth. I feel more comfortable with my hard cast. They always served me well in my 44 mag, even on moose.

Good luck
 
No problem getting 2000 fps MV from my 1895 Guide with 325gr FTX bullets and Reloder7. Note that Hornady LEVERevolution ammo is listed at 2050 fps MV from a 24" barrel.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/45-70-government-325-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

A 45-70 Ruger No.1 loaded with spitzer bullets is easily a 300 meter heavy game hunting rifle. I can load 300gr X bullets in my No.1 45-70 at 2600 fps MV which is about 200 fps faster than what my Sako 85 Kodiak 375 H&H Magnum can do with 300gr bullets. I nailed this 6x7 Bull Elk broadside through the shoulders at about 150 meters using that load. It hit the deck like 2 tons of bricks fell on it. 1 shot DRT. ;)

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45-70 Ruger No.1-S with Nikon Omega BDC 250 3-9x40mm

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Slamfire said:
No problem getting 2000 fps MV from my 1895 Guide with 325gr FTX bullets and Reloder7. Note that Hornady LEVERevolution ammo is listed at 2050 fps MV from a 24" barrel.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/45-70-government-325-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

A 45-70 Ruger No.1 loaded with spitzer bullets is easily a 300 meter heavy game hunting rifle. I can load 300gr X bullets in my No.1 45-70 at 2600 fps MV which is about 200 fps faster than what my Sako 85 Kodiak 375 H&H Magnum can do with 300gr bullets. I nailed this 6x7 Bull Elk broadside through the shoulders at about 150 meters using that load. It hit the deck like 2 tons of bricks fell on it. 1 shot DRT. ;)

36034697851_2b3cf32158_b.jpg

45-70 Ruger No.1-S with Nikon Omega BDC 250 3-9x40mm

35970825963_9392c619e1_b.jpg
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I don't disagree about that velocity with handloads and the ftx. I was simply speaking to the factory ammo as mentioned. And if my observations concerning the durability of the ftx is correct at 1850 with the factory ammo, it would only be worse at shorter ranges at the faster speeds. Now, and only my opinion, if I wanted a bullet for deer and smaller bear, broadside lung shots would result in faster kills with the ftx. However, if I wanted a devastating load for that I would have stuck to my 7mag. For me, and I only mean for me, the 45-70 is for deep penetration in the thick stuff on bigger animals allowing for a shoulder shot if required without losing the whole front quarter, or a raking quartering away shot when I am dogging. To me, the 45-70 is a specific tool, and it loses its purpose as we try to morph it into something else. Now some have have great luck with the 325 gr ftx, but for me I already had other rifles to do that kind of work.

Good luck!
 
Slamfire said:
No problem getting 2000 fps MV from my 1895 Guide with 325gr FTX bullets and Reloder7. Note that Hornady LEVERevolution ammo is listed at 2050 fps MV from a 24" barrel.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/45-70-government-325-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

A 45-70 Ruger No.1 loaded with spitzer bullets is easily a 300 meter heavy game hunting rifle. I can load 300gr X bullets in my No.1 45-70 at 2600 fps MV which is about 200 fps faster than what my Sako 85 Kodiak 375 H&H Magnum can do with 300gr bullets. I nailed this 6x7 Bull Elk broadside through the shoulders at about 150 meters using that load. It hit the deck like 2 tons of bricks fell on it. 1 shot DRT. ;)

36034697851_2b3cf32158_b.jpg

45-70 Ruger No.1-S with Nikon Omega BDC 250 3-9x40mm

35970825963_9392c619e1_b.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't disagree about that velocity with handloads and the ftx. I was simply speaking to the factory ammo as mentioned. And if my observations concerning the durability of the ftx is correct at 1850 with the factory ammo, it would only be worse at shorter ranges at the faster speeds. Now, and only my opinion, if I wanted a bullet for deer and smaller bear, broadside lung shots would result in faster kills with the ftx. However, if I wanted a devastating load for that I would have stuck to my 7mag. For me, and I only mean for me, the 45-70 is for deep penetration in the thick stuff on bigger animals allowing for a shoulder shot if required without losing the whole front quarter, or a raking quartering away shot when I am dogging. To me, the 45-70 is a specific tool, and it loses its purpose as we try to morph it into something else. Now some have have great luck with the 325 gr ftx, but for me I already had other rifles to do that kind of work.

Good luck!
 
Google sandy hook 45/70. Good read

I don't trust the 325 gr flex tip on game other than deer personally. They may do better at longer ranges for which I don't use my 45/70
I use a baikal sxs and it's good at 10 yards and still on at 100 yards
Any further I reach for my 458 wm or 300 wm
 
I prefer a shoulder shot for bears thus not having confidence in the 325 flex tip. However I'm sure it'd be find for deer. Bears you never know if it will be a 150 lb or a 500 lb animal coming out

I've been playing with the 300 gr hollow points from Hornady. Very accurate but I couldn't hit 2600 fps in my 458 wm using H4895
My 45/70 doesn't regulate them
If i buy a lever gun in 45/70 I'd definitely load them for deer and adjust placement for bears
 
Seems to be the general consensus on the 325gr FTX - better suited for Deer-sized game.

The Hornady 300gr HP has a relatively thin jacket and disintegrates after leaving the muzzle at speeds > 2800 fps (as noted in the article on the 450 Ackley Magnum in Big Bore Rifles & Cartridges). The Sierra 300gr FN (discontinued) is more stoutly constructed since it held together in flight at speeds approaching 2900 fps. :eek:

Note the data (from Bob Hagel's article in Big Bore Rifle & Cartridges) for the 458 Win. Mag. and the Sierra 300gr FN (discontinued).

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I have a supply of 45-70 300gr TSX FN bullets. Also on my to do list to try. The 300gr could be loaded to about 2100 fps MV in my 18-1/2" GBL.

I would guess the 250gr TSX could be loaded to about 2300 fps MV. But has about the same speed as the 300gr at 200 yards because of the low 0.136 ballistic coefficient. :eek:

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http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

(not sure why this source lists data for the Ruger No.1 and Marlin 1895 together?? The No.1 is a way stronger action :eek:)

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BigUglyMan said:
I've shot more rounds of 45-70 than most people. To me it's not a 300 yard hunting rifle. Even with light bullets to bump up the speed and ballistic reticles, there are about 75 better choices. Not saying it won't work, but it's the same sort of "why would you?" that I ask myself when I see some mope pedaling a bike on the highway while going on vacation. Sure, I can bike to Thunder Bay from my house, but there are several better modes of transportation.
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I agree. Moose tags dont come around all the time and if I had one, I would certainly carry a rifle that would reach across those big clearcuts moose like to hang in during the rut.

A freind of mine used to call the 30-30 a "sharp stick", because you might as well have a sharp stick in your hand when you see that big buck 350yds across the chopping and all you have is a 30-30 to shoot at it with. Same could apply to a 45-70.
 
sookie_69 said:
I completely agree with you. If I'm going somewhere I know shots are going to be over 200 I'll take either my 308 or 338. But if I know I'll be walking bush the 45/70 comes with me hands down. It's just nice to know if you walk into a clearing and a longer shot presents itself that you are comfortable taking it.
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Yeah I have a 300 wsm that I can make a 300 yard shot with....Up North where I hunt elk most shots are about a stone throw away from me. My elk I shot last year was a whopping 40 yards..thats whats got me thinking about carrying a nice little bush round like the 45-70.
 
First off, moose don't take a lot of killing. Generally, they're not stressed and on adrenaline the way deer are. My wife shot a huge cow moose at 220 paces with a 7.62X39. 3 shots in the lungs. If they had not went after the moose right away, it would have laid there and died.


If, and this is the key, you know the distance to within 20 yards, and you really know your ballistics, with proper and sufficient practice and marksmanship, it could be along-range gun. They were used against buffalo and in war at significant ranges. However, the vast majority of hunters (self included) would not be able to pull it off.
 
sookie_69 said:
I know I'm gonna get flamed for it.....325g ftx from hornady in a guide gun. I get sub moa out of all 3 of mine with it. I'd have no problem shooting out to 300 yards with that. I've got some 405g I need to load up and try also.
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That's what I use (LeverEvolution 325gr) in my Marlin 1895,too,but only for close range/heavy brush @ 100M or less. For long range across hydro lines or swamps out to 250+,it's 30-06 Sprg (180gr PSP) all the way.
 
Shooting Moose across clear cuts? The 45-70 certainly up to the task, especially the 300gr TSX bullet at 2600 fps MV in a Ruger No.1. Compared to a say a 30-06 firing a 180gr bullet at 2700 fps, energies are nearly the same at 350 yards. And the 300gr 45-70 bullet has substantially more momentum and makes a way bigger hole.

A 45-70 405gr bullet at 1850 fps MV impacts at 1000 fps at 350 yards - quite adequate to be fatal. Bullet drop is easily compensated for by using a ballistic reticle.

45-70 / 300gr TSX @ 2600 fps MV
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30-06 / 180gr @ 2700 fps MV
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Between me and my hunting partners we killed moose with FTX 325, Barnes 400, Speer 400 and Rem 405. Never had a problem with any of them. All lungs shot and one neck shot. All within 100 yards.

Furthermore, I'm a shooting instructor and early this summer a bullet proof vest company used my services to test their vest with different calibers at a distance of 25 yards.
The calibers were... 9mm, 45acp, 357mag, 44mag, 7.62x39, 223rem. The vest was placed on a 5 gallon jug. None of the bullet went through. The 44mag made a golf ball size impact, the 7.62x39 made a orange size impact.

After we were done testing I asked the owner if I could try a 200grs FTX 460 S&W bullet, he agreed. That bullet (same as the 325 FTX but lighter) went through the front of the vest, through the 5 gallons jug and through the back of the vest. No fragments were found. The vest was placed 4 feet from the dirt back stop. Didn't searched for long but didn't find the bullet in the dirt.

I don't care what some of you are saying, the Hornady 325 grs FTX will kill anything you shoot at. As for dangerous game, I would prefer a hardcast for more penetration but in a hunting scenario the FTX will do whats needed thats for sure.
 
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