.45-70 VS .300 win

[jjohnwm]

If the OP really needs to ask this question, then I wonder if he really should be shooting at deer that are far enough away for it to matter which cartridge he is using.

I love the .45-70, and it would be my choice for hunting if I knew I wouldn't be shooting much beyond 250 yards or so. It won't destroy much meat at all (far less than a .300mag), it'll kill any deer or black bear that ever lived (not just the "average" critters that he'll probably shoot, but even the rare monster specimens that we dream about!), and for me it would just be way more fun to use. It will work much farther than those ranges, but it becomes much more difficult to hit with it at longer distances.

The .300 is obviously the answer if long range versatility is thrown into the mix; it's flatter trajectory will make it much easier to hit with.

And as much as I hate to be the guy that chooses "C: none of the above" when that wasn't one of the original options...I've got to comment that if you actually need to ask this odd question, you probably should be buying a .243 or .308 and learning its limitations and yours.

 

[Slamfire]

Is a flat trajectory needed for long range shooting if a ballistic reticle scope is used?

 

[torontogungal]

I think a 555 gr cast lead launched at 1350-1400 fps from a 45-70 would still have enough power to take down a deer or black bear even at 1000 yds. The bullet basically goes into cruise mode once it goes subsonic. But as you say, getting on target would be another challenge altogether. Shooting steel targets 4 feet square with a vernier ladder sight at 600 yds, and hitting a deer or black bear in the vitals at 100 yds are two different things altogether. I do both.
Since this thread is really about hunting, if it were me, I'd grab either the 45-70, or as has been suggested even better, the 308 or 270. They all work fine for hunting. It is great to have choices. The only reason I'd pass on the 300 wm is I don't have one.

When you think of it the whole sport of hunting is the taking up of essentially unnecessary challenges.
The least challenging, complicated and probably cheapest way of getting meat is walk into your local grocery store.
The challenge IS the sport.

 

[Suther]

For that matter, what is "standard" for a 45-70? Between the trap door Springfield, lever guns, and the no.1 there is at least 3 different power levels, nevermind the fact that with hand loading you can make anything in between those...

What is standard?
Think SAAMI

3 power levels are generally recognized for the 45-70:

1) trapdoor
2) leverguns like marlin 1895, win 1886
3) ruger #1

lol

Is a flat trajectory needed for long range shooting if a ballistic reticle scope is used?

The problem I see is that you need to be bang-on with your ranging for a 45-70. If you've got a super-costly range finder that works in all conditions, then I guess it doesn't matter, but if you rely on less precise means of ranging then the 300wm will have an advantage in ease of use. If you screw up your range with a 45-70 past 200 yds, you get crazy bullet drop, whereas the 300wm you don't have to worry about range out to 300+yds depending on where your zero is set.

 

[Superbrad]

lol



The problem I see is that you need to be bang-on with your ranging for a 45-70. If you've got a super-costly range finder that works in all conditions, then I guess it doesn't matter, but if you rely on less precise means of ranging then the 300wm will have an advantage in ease of use. If you screw up your range with a 45-70 past 200 yds, you get crazy bullet drop, whereas the 300wm you don't have to worry about range out to 300+yds depending on where your zero is set.

Stop making sense...... You are supposed to carry a $1000 leica, use a ballistic reticle scope all while using a falling block rifle with an overloaded century plus old cartridge..... Lobbing potatoes with the trajectory of a falling safe.... Doesn't everybody know that?

Using a flat shooting 30 cal with a Plex reticle is just so passe....

 

[Slamfire]

The Ruger No.1-S 45-70 is a rather elegant and stylish rifle isn't it...

 

[jjohnwm]

+1 on that^. A Medium Sporter in .45-70 was my first Number One, should never have sold it off.

If I ever come across one of the recent run that was made with a 26-inch tube, I may not be able to resist it...

 

[Slamfire]

Those 26" barrel models are out there. Something about the .45-70 round and the rifle that just go together well.

 

[nw mb]

...killed several deer with each...45-70 in custom handi-rifle...300 in ruger 1

there is no vs...no comparison...different mindset altogether

one time did a raking shot on a deer heading straight away with the 45-70 @ 100 yards...entered left next to the vent and exited the right chest with virtually no meat damage...still ran 50 yards

300, 7mm mag, etc just drop, but shoulders are blown to jelly, and i'd never take a shot like the former with it, but when i lived on the prairie it was a 500yd+ gun

45-70 load = original 1600 fps with 405 grain cast bullet, 300 load = 170 grain sierra gameking

45-70 shoots like a rainbow, 300 about as flat as it gets

get both

 

[Slamfire]

^^^
For sure, words of wisdom.

I like my 300 Win. Mag. Sako 85 Grey Wolf too, depending on what day of the week it is.

 

[Quigly]

If the majority of shots are 200 yards and under I would go with a 45-70. If the majority of your shots are beyond that I would go with something that shoots flatter, and has more energy. The biggest hurtle to overcome with the 45-70 is it's rainbow trajectory.

 

[BigUglyMan]

OP didn't specify standard 45-70. Again, a 300gr X bullet at 2600 fps MV is safe in my Ruger No.1.

The overwhelming majority of 45-70 shooters aren't using a Ruger #1 or a spitzer bullet.

 

[pastway]

The Ruger No.1-S 45-70 is a rather elegant and stylish rifle isn't it...

If I had that to hunt with, I wouldn't care if I got anything or not. I could be happy just sitting in the woods looking at that thing.

 

[jjohnwm]

The overwhelming majority of 45-70 shooters aren't using a Ruger #1 or a spitzer bullet.

For deer and black bear under 200 yards, you don't need spitzer bullets or high-performance megaloads. Any decent 300gr or 400gr loading will do; if you don't reload, the Leverevolution stuff is terrific hunting ammo.

 

[saskcop]

I have shot different big game with 405 grain .45-70 loads from medium ranges to about 20' on a small moose. There was not a single case of excessive meat damage as the tough old bullet just blows its way through.

 

[Gatehouse]

I wouldn't even consider either one for a new deer/black bear hunter. 308 makes more sense. But between the 300WM and 45-70, the 300WM is a much more versatile cartridge for the average hunter. it's also a very capable cartridge, at close range and far.

 

[Slamfire]

If I had that to hunt with, I wouldn't care if I got anything or not. I could be happy just sitting in the woods looking at that thing.

Mechanical artwork.

The No.1-S is also available in 9.3x74R, another flanged round that just seems right for the No.1 rifle. It too can digest some rather warm handloads.

9.3x74R and 308

 

[Slamfire]

For deer and black bear under 200 yards, you don't need spitzer bullets or high-performance megaloads. Any decent 300gr or 400gr loading will do; if you don't reload, the Leverevolution stuff is terrific hunting ammo.

^^ +1.

And loaded to full safe potential with spitzers the 45-70 Ruger is a very fine heavy game stomper with reach. Not to be under-gunned for any game at any reasonable range I might encounter.

 

[torontogungal]

That 45-70 325 gr ftx leverevolution factory ammo was amazingly accurate in a stainless marlin guide gun 1895gs we once owned.
It was a remlin that paw polished up really slick and a friend fell in love with it.
Sold the gun & 6 boxes of the leverevolution ammo with it as it was our last 45-70.
Our 300 win mag will do everything it will do and at much longer ranges if necessary.

 

[Boomer]

Is a flat trajectory needed for long range shooting if a ballistic reticle scope is used?

In a word, yes. All range measuring devices lose accuracy as distance increases, and it only takes a very small error at long range to run into problems when shooting with a steep trajectory. All bullets, regardless of velocity, drop at the speed of gravity, which acts equally on fast bullets and slow, but the faster the bullet, and the more aerodynamic it's shape, the further it travels in the same period of time. If that's not enough, errors in range estimation result in errors in wind drift which is adversely affected by the longer time of flight of a steep trajectory. Due to its variable nature, wind presents a greater problem than range, and with a steep trajectory, long range is a pretty big problem.

If you're suggesting that a .458/300 gr bullet at 2600 fps is practical choice for use out to 300 yards, I'm with you, but to me long range suggests something entirely different. Shooting across a known distance, at a stationary target, of a precise size, is very different than shooting at game across an estimated distance.