45 acp

buckmagnet

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hello again, because im new to this i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what is a good gr. slug to use because im shooting paper, perhaps there is a slightly lighter lead than a 230gr. maybe thats overkill and there could be a more comfortable option. last Q for now is what is a good slug weight and powder combo (including the power name please). like i said just shooting paper so would like fast recovery time perhaps lighter loads than the store bought 230gr.
thanks -todd
 
the 200 grain swc has quite a following- as to powder, you're going to have to come up with a little research- there's all kinds of recipes from mild to wild- my speer calls for 5.0 of 231, for practice mild loads- john shaw's book calls for 5.3 with 6.0 being the top end- and his says 6.2
 
with a 200 g Lead swc and low end powder charge from any pistol powder manuf and you should be able to make a light target load and you can go to medium powder charge and make major PF -- Just use reliable data and with lead you will have to clean more often than shooting factory jacketed rounds
 
I use 5.8 gr Vv N320 under a 185gr JSWC. Cycles well and makes Major comfortably;
MV around 940 f/s. I find Vv N320 exceptionally clean. It costs more than the cheap dirty s**t but on a per round basis the price difference is small potatoes. Clean is good :).
 
It depends on the gun semi auto can be fussy and you may have to use round ball type while SW make a neater hole for sure. If scoring for IDPA for example it's the grease ring so round and sw ending up covering the same amount of real estate. The ball is more reliable and accurate, the SW is easier to see and score.
For me SW open my groups up by about 6 inches at 25 yards but in IDPA it is rare you shoot from that far so in IDPA accuracy difference between the two is a mute point.
As for loads don't waste your time and money get a crony and measure your velocity.
In less than 20 rounds you'll know if that combination is right or not and once you get in the swing of things you'll figure it out in ten rounds or less.
I paper test first so not to hit the crony then ten round across the crony.
That said if the combination doesn't group I don't bother using the crony.
It doesn't matter where it hits on the paper as long as you use the same point of aim.
Grab a slower burning powder or not start with a load that cycles the action reliably and add .2 of a grain to start. If working outside in really cold temps you need to add say .5 grain.
Now depending on if your casting your own bullets power and plays a bigger part.
So your better off test the hardness of your lead after it's cure time depend on your casting methods.
Then there is the lube.
The whole idea is to get the lead mix soft enough (keeps cost down like by 50%)
Once the planets are a lined your cost to shoot 45acp will be about $3.50 a box (50).
My costs all in except gear is $2.50 to $3.50 for 9mm or 45acp it varies due to the cost of lead and the hard alloy I have mixed up by Aim.
All lead will have something in it so I melt down lead in batches and test it then I know how much hard alloy to add to get #2 Alloy which I use for 9mm and the soft lead i use for 45acp. Hence 45acp cost the same as 9mm for me and .22lr (Walmart) cost a bit less at $2.99 a box. You might be able to do it cheaper bc I ship most of my stuff in and have include shipping in the costs.
So in a nut shell.
Every gun will have a type of bullet that works best, so shoot the original design.
What the bullet is made of and shape will make a deference
Powder and primer yes but not so much unless where looking for sub inch groups ;)
Temperature
Use a scale to check your powder measure.
I use a measure that varies by .2 of a grain and my velocities are within 100 f/s of each other some are with in 20 ft/sec (batches)
I've seen some guys reloads vary by as much as 800 ft/s in the same batch.
A crony to a reloader is almost as important as a good scale.
And then finally there's you or use a rest and the it's not so much you :)

Last thought I forgot to mention is leading and not streaking that's why you need harder lead for faster bullets. So while it is posible to cast fast (light bullets) heavy slow ones have less variables to deal with.
Heavy bullets have more of a push recoil while light ones snap.
You just have to figure what works for you and what do you want to shot.

These are just my thoughts and experiences your may differ.
cheers
Allay
 
Once the planets are a lined your cost to shoot 45acp will be about $3.50 a box (50).

What planet ? Being extremely conservative on costs, (no shipping or taxes) its gonna cost 5 1/2 cents a round for powder and primers !! A penny and a half for a bullet ?

Anyhow, buckmagnet, you won't save money reloading 45 ACP. Claims to the contrary come from a combination of unrealistic costing and real bad math. Don't be mislead. To get the specific ammo you want though, you're gonna have to make it. It shouldn't cost more than the professionally reloaded ammo you can buy and it'll be a fun and interesting project for you.
 
Anyhow, buckmagnet, you won't save money reloading 45 ACP. Claims to the contrary come from a combination of unrealistic costing and real bad math.

I must be horrible with math then, as I'm under the impression that I reload .45 for just under 10 bucks for 50... Must just be my horrible math skills.
Let's see, factory .45's for $25-$30/50 or my handloads for $10/50... Correct me if I am wrong but that's a savings of $15-$20... or should I go back to grade 7 math?
 
I must be horrible with math then, as I'm under the impression that I reload .45 for just under 10 bucks for 50... Must just be my horrible math skills.
Let's see, factory .45's for $25-$30/50 or my handloads for $10/50... Correct me if I am wrong but that's a savings of $15-$20... or should I go back to grade 7 math?

Yep :D.
 
My grade 7 teacher always said "apples to apples" was the way to compare. This means you don't compare prices of New ammo purchased in 50 rd lots to the cost of bulk produced reloads and call THAT a realistic comparison.

Comparing bulk produced reloads you can buy to bulk produced reloads you can make is a realistic comparison.

According to these guys: http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_33_39&products_id=237 , who actually sell them, bulk FMJ 45 ACP costs $0.36 apiece, sold in 1000 rd lots. We can leave out shipping and tax cause you pay that no matter what. You can sell brass for $0.10 apiece (equating to keeping your brass to reload) so net cost would now be $0.26 apiece. This should be your basis for comparison, not buying new ammo purchased 50 rds at a time costing $0.70 each and throwing away the brass!!

Cost to reload ??

A popular seller here offers bulk 45 ACP FMJ for $0.21 each in 100 pce lots. As posted earlier, to prime and charge your brass cost $0.055 cents each. So far we're down a half a cent per round for our efforts without getting into equipment costs.

You'll notice that in this comparison, we wind up with "Reloaded 45 ACP FMJ either way. Thats the apples to apples comparison your grade 7 teacher told you about.
 
The break down for me is as follows for 45acp.
Brass already owned $0
Primers $34 / 1000 but I have paid $45 shop around $0.034
Lead $0.60 pound or free (I use electricity) 230 grn (7000 grn / pound) 30 bullets a pound $0.60 / 30 = $.02 per bullet.
I use Bullseye $28 1 lbs (7000 / 3.8 grn) 1842 loads = $0.0152

Total $0.0692 per bullet brass, lube and equipment extra
If I use the most expensive lube Lee Alox at $5 bottle /2000 = $0.0025 per bullet
Which brings my cost up to $0.0717 per bullet or $3.585 per box (50)
That's the break down on my last batch of 45acp now I was out of bullets so I bought some store bought amo and paid from $26 to $36 per box plus 15% tax so they cost $29.9 to $41.4 a box (50)
Hopefully you were kidding????
The point is this you can spend a lot of money on reloading gear that will not work out.
I was just pointing out what works for me.
cheers
Allay
 
With shortages around here you can't get Wolf reloads which if you turn back the brass I think is about $20 a box.
But good luck on that he hasn't sold amo around my parts for 2 yrs.
 
What planet ? Being extremely conservative on costs, (no shipping or taxes) its gonna cost 5 1/2 cents a round for powder and primers !! A penny and a half for a bullet ?

Anyhow, buckmagnet, you won't save money reloading 45 ACP. Claims to the contrary come from a combination of unrealistic costing and real bad math. Don't be mislead. To get the specific ammo you want though, you're gonna have to make it. It shouldn't cost more than the professionally reloaded ammo you can buy and it'll be a fun and interesting project for you.

The planet thing refers to some times you get lucky.
Meaning some times the lead is free
The range brass is free
Primers and powder on sale or available at discount locations.
One occasion I traded lead for primers
Sizers come with free lube

Or the planets are not lined up and you pay through the nose, the most I have ever paid to load 45acp was under $10.
Brass was 0.21 each
Primers 0.06 each
Powder was $36/pound
Lead was around $5/pound

But this was when there was no store bought amo to be had.
Like now around here there has been any 45acp, but I stock pile lead, powder and primers that keeps my costs way down.
that's just my experience
Allay
 
now hold on there- range brass is NOT free- you may pay for it in the long run as YOU have no idea how many times it's been fired, or WHAT it's been fired in- in other words, you're taking a gamble- i've had brass that has had a head rupture, and thankfully all it cost me was a new mag and a slide stop- only thing i can think of was it was a range brass that was fired too many times-
 
I would suggest that if a weapon is not a slam fire type, once in battery the case has served it's purpose. If the case ruptured it was bc it wasn't in battery.
So either the weapon didn't lock up or the round went off when it was stripped from the mag.
Match primers can do that and so can a raised primer.
Think of it this way if the brass casing was where it was suppose to be it would have expanded against the chamber wall, there is no way a brass casing can withstand the pressure of the round being fired outside a chamber. It's supported all the way around and at the end.
You may remember that the original casing where made of paper.

My money is on either a high primer / match primer or the gun has / had a battery problem.

Check your loads, spent brass for damage and spent primers for leaking, then look around the firing pin for erosion from hot gases all can be indiactors of firing out of battery.

With dummy amo see if you can get the hammer to drop out of battery.

Some semi auto's have different tolerances for going into battery but it just seems to me the more expensive guns have tighter tolerances. Which translates into very fussy about what amo it will shoot. I have a 45acp Para that's a premadona will only shoot amo that is right on spec so that rules out the cheap store bought stuff. But does fine on my reloads and premium store bought amo.

The upside is you didn't get hurt and that's a good thing.

Allay
 
Figure on .08 cents per bullet to purchase 200gr. swc cast, add the cost of primers and powder, still saving a pile of money.
 
hello again, because im new to this i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what is a good gr. slug to use because im shooting paper, perhaps there is a slightly lighter lead than a 230gr. maybe thats overkill and there could be a more comfortable option. last Q for now is what is a good slug weight and powder combo (including the power name please). like i said just shooting paper so would like fast recovery time perhaps lighter loads than the store bought 230gr.
thanks -todd

200gr swc 4.0 to 4.2 gr Bullseye , Alliant

4.0gr Titegroup, Hogdon

Cheers
 
What planet ? Being extremely conservative on costs, (no shipping or taxes) its gonna cost 5 1/2 cents a round for powder and primers !! A penny and a half for a bullet ?

I think he might be talking about the "casting" planet...

148534.jpg
 
I would suggest that if a weapon is not a slam fire type, once in battery the case has served it's purpose. If the case ruptured it was bc it wasn't in battery.
So either the weapon didn't lock up or the round went off when it was stripped from the mag.
Match primers can do that and so can a raised primer.
Think of it this way if the brass casing was where it was suppose to be it would have expanded against the chamber wall, there is no way a brass casing can withstand the pressure of the round being fired outside a chamber. It's supported all the way around and at the end.
You may remember that the original casing where made of paper.

My money is on either a high primer / match primer or the gun has / had a battery problem.

Check your loads, spent brass for damage and spent primers for leaking, then look around the firing pin for erosion from hot gases all can be indiactors of firing out of battery.

With dummy amo see if you can get the hammer to drop out of battery.

Some semi auto's have different tolerances for going into battery but it just seems to me the more expensive guns have tighter tolerances. Which translates into very fussy about what amo it will shoot. I have a 45acp Para that's a premadona will only shoot amo that is right on spec so that rules out the cheap store bought stuff. But does fine on my reloads and premium store bought amo.

The upside is you didn't get hurt and that's a good thing.

Allay

and you'd be WRONG- i found the brass afterwords and it was INDEED thinner in the head area- i've only had 2 case ruptures in 40 years of shooting, and both were brass of brands i DON'T buy, and the 45 acp is NOT SUPPORTED at the head/extractor groove- at least not in the 1911 standard model- that's why the head fails at 19000 psi and you need to use RIFLE BRASS if you want to step on the load a little to make it perform like a 44 mag- other pistols do offer full support , but not the 1911- incidentally, that's the SAME REASON you can't use 9mm that's been fired in some subs- the head thins on firing- i've got examples of 9mm that looks like a really short magnum- that's b/c the head was not supported- esp the stirling and the uzi
 
and you'd be WRONG- i found the brass afterwords and it was INDEED thinner in the head area- i've only had 2 case ruptures in 40 years of shooting, and both were brass of brands i DON'T buy, and the 45 acp is NOT SUPPORTED at the head/extractor groove- at least not in the 1911 standard model- that's why the head fails at 19000 psi and you need to use RIFLE BRASS if you want to step on the load a little to make it perform like a 44 mag- other pistols do offer full support , but not the 1911- incidentally, that's the SAME REASON you can't use 9mm that's been fired in some subs- the head thins on firing- i've got examples of 9mm that looks like a really short magnum- that's b/c the head was not supported- esp the stirling and the uzi

I want to relate an experience I had chronographing a friends Colt Commander.
It seems he had a friend load some .45 ACP for him using 230 swc H & G bullets I had produced and he was complaining of too much recoil. He left the gun and ammo with me as I was going to chrono later.
The first round went 1249 fps; this is a 230gr bullet out of a 4 1/4" stock Colt!
The next one went 1150, then back up to 1200.

Eveybody used military brass in those days, commercial .45 was far too expensive.

The recoil got your attention.

This was using the clubs Oehler chronograph.

That was over 25 years ago, never found out what the load was. I can only imagine what the pressures were.

Cheers
 
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