.450 Adams VS bears

pistols on bears

The idea of taking on an aggressive bear with a handgun is absurd. If and when it happens, it will happen very quickly and you had better be cool and ready.

Time for some of the armchair bear hunters to have a conversation with Gunnar Christenson of Armco (Prince George, BC) who offers his 45-'08 1911 pistol. Cases are cut down .308s for the strength of the web, hence the name.
Unless you're a customer, he won't discuss the load with you.

His customers are legal carry placer miners, timber cruisers, etc. Several have used his guns in real life scenarios. They are all advocates of the semi-auto over revolvers. Why?

You will have a death grip on the gun to prevent malfunctioning with a limp grip and just have to pull the trigger until (a) you run out of ammo or (b) the bear drops. If he doesn't, you don't have much to worry about either way.

The idea of a reload with either revolver or auto is ludicrous. You are going to be so rattled, you probably couldn't find your own A$$ with both hands simultaneously.

Spring bear season is coming ..... we look forward to some antique pistol bear-dropping stories. I'll be packing my 50-70 Sharps.
 
The idea of taking on an aggressive bear with a handgun is absurd. If and when it happens, it will happen very quickly and you had better be cool and ready.
Click to expand...

"taking on" and "defending yourself" are two totally diffrent things. One you choose and one you don't. No one with a brain would 'take on' a bear with a boer war relic.
That being said if you find yourself laying on your back in a mess of empty caspian spray cans with broken ribs with a hemoraging artery you'd feel pretty smart if you could reach down and unholster ANYTHING that projects force. At PBR a 650-700 FPS heavy bullet will tunnel through more meat and bone then anyone seems to want to give them credit for.

Yes a bear attack may happen quickly OR it is just as likely (maybe more so ) that an attack will last a very, very, very, very long time. From personal experience I can assure you that a bears persistance/curiosity/cunning make a drawn out encounter likley. It may well just be fatigue which encumbers you by the time the bear decides to make his 'move'.


The idea of a reload with either revolver or auto is ludicrous
Click to expand...

No it is not! Bang bang bang bang you fire 4 rounds at point blang range bear turns and is doing the rage riot 20 yards away as he sorts out the ouches he got. Are you gonna stand there shaking like a girl or top up before he comes back?

we look forward to some antique pistol bear-dropping stories
Click to expand...

you might be but I for one don't want to hear that someone's life was threatened to the point where they had to deploy a firearm and destroyed an animal. No good can come of that.

For my 2 cents: Anyone who is thinking of packing an antique as part of thier bear management plan should.

Self educate or take a course in Bear defense

Carry at least one non lethal deterant and practice with it.

Know what they and thier firearm is capable of through practice and testing.
 
By the sound of it, I think the best solution is to carry a very long & sharp spear... and to let the bear skewer itself onto it as it charges, lol

:D

Spear_of_Lugh_copy.jpg



Seriously though, thanks for the tips guys... the opinions seem to be very different in many instances, but pretty much everyone had something very interesting to say. I guess that bottom line is: don't mess with the bear, unless there's no other choice.

Bushman79: That is one freaky story... If I saw that SOB coming at me like that from behind, I would've unloaded that .44 special in his general direction, most likely without even aiming, lol (I wouldn't care where I hit him, as long as he's being hit)...

Actually, now that I think of it, I believe that a hunter should carry 2 big bore antiques for bear defense, not just 1. Also, although standard velocity rounds are not recommended for antiques (especially in smokeless), I think that my anti-bear arsenal will contain some "hotter" antique rounds for those very special occasions.

:eek:
 
I think the best solution is to carry a very long & sharp spear
Click to expand...

All Joking aside your 100% correct IMHO a stout spear would be the prefered weapon to face a charge with. Bit cumbersome to carry in the bush and murder on the car upholstery though!
 
david doyle said:
All Joking aside your 100% correct IMHO a stout spear would be the prefered weapon to face a charge with. Bit cumbersome to carry in the bush and murder on the car upholstery though!
Click to expand...

Yes spears are good But i like his Idea of carrying Two six guns :) I have a 12 inch tanto and two remington 1875s that shoot 45 schofield spitting 250 Gr SWCs at 1100 + Fps.
one 7.5 and one 6 incher.

Hey thats better than waveing your #### in the air :D

I agree with DDs above post on Bears to thats right on from what i have seen as well, on the trapline and my experiences with bears in the bush.
 
I have a 12 inch tanto and two remington 1875s that shoot 45 schofield spitting 250 Gr SWCs at 1100 + Fps.
Click to expand...

Having seen some of Dingus's 25 yard targets I pity the fool bear that 'crosses the line'.
 
um how's a 450 for DEER ? i posted this in my other post.

Also 4 year ago. When I was hunting deer. I got some what attacked By a DEER all I remember is I was playing with my deer call walking down the trail. And heard a sound witch I thought was a bear. So I turned around and started to walk away and then I seen maybe 10ft from me around a turn a big 6 point bucks “bucking a doe” lets say I did not know what to do so I picked up my gun and started to point it at him and then right as I started to look into the scope he jumped off and jumped towards me witch made me drop my gun. And let’s say we where in a stand off for maybe 5 sec him stomping his feet. Then he jumped towards me some more. (Now he was maybe 4-5 ft from me.) So I ran like hell maybe 20 yards looked back and he was no where to be seen. So I went back got my gun. Cleaned some of the swamp mud off it. And then started to walk back. And then I saw him 100 yards away. But my scope had too much mud on it to take the shot.

If I had the antique gun I think I would have pulled it and let him have it. I think that day if I would not have ran he may have attacked me. And maybe killed me.
 
Sharps '63 said:
His customers are legal carry placer miners, timber cruisers, etc. Several have used his guns in real life scenarios. They are all advocates of the semi-auto over revolvers. Why?

You will have a death grip on the gun to prevent malfunctioning with a limp grip and just have to pull the trigger until (a) you run out of ammo or (b) the bear drops. If he doesn't, you don't have much to worry about either way.
Click to expand...

They'll probably be SOL the next time they renew their ATC's. The CFO has stopped allowing pistols. Revolvers only.

I carry a .454 Casull but had my G17 on my previous ATC. Not anymore Monty. :(
 
Found this today:

More from Gambier Parry (SUAKIN): "The ammunition was of two kinds in the Suakin force--a fatal error. Why cannot the Indian troops be armed with the Martini instead of the [obsolete] Snider? [Because of the "cheese-paring economy" that he complained about earlier!] One word about the revolver. The calibre of the regulation pattern revolver a short time ago was .450, but it has lately been changed to .455, so that there were again two different sizes of ammunition here. Moreover, the ammunition was of an inferior quality, and I heard on one occasion of three miss fires out of six--a nice thing to happen when everything may depend upon a shot! The calibre of the revolvers should be increased; the present bullet is not sufficient to stop a man unless he is struck in the head or the heart, and an Arab shield made of crocodile skin or rhinoceros hide would, we found, turn a revolver bullet at forty yards. A revolver is ten times more use than a sword, provided it is fitted with the Webley patent, enabling the user to reload without difficulty."
I won't comment on the merits of the Webley, except to note that revolvers of any make were declared to be generally ineffective in the Sudan War (for reasons noted in SWORD FIGHTERS OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE); but rather than increase the calibre, which would adversely affect range and accuracy, it was decided upon to adopt the "man-stopper" or dumdum bullet, the most effective slug since the .70 Minie ball. But the "humanitarian" lobbyists didn't rest until they had it banned, thus prolonging conflicts because combatants weren't disabled fast enough, if at all. A good example of how do-goodism does little or no good!
 
Here's a pic of my antique Smith&Wesson in 450. got to say better than nothing but not by much,underpowerd for dangerous big game if it were legal then a deer at 25YRDs but no further .But an extreamly accurate and fun gun to shoot
PB080105.jpg
 
Here is what they teach LEOs in BC

If there are no alternatives to destroying a bear, the following guidelines should be followed in
the use of lethal force:
• control the public
• never compromise officer or public safety
• use the appropriate weapon – a shotgun with slugs or a 30 calibre rifle is suitable to
destroy a bear – if unavailable, a large calibre handgun (.357, .44 mag, or .45 caliber) or a
shotgun loaded with buckshot can be used if the bear is immobile or you can get a close
range shot (<5 m) to the head or thoracic region.• be aware of your surroundings and line of fire
• ensure your weapon is “sighted in” - if you are not confident enough, do not shoot
• mobile wildlife should be shot below the shoulder and slightly to the rear of it (this is
where the heart and top of the lungs are located)
• immobilized wildlife should be shot in the head – draw an “X” between the ears and the
eyes and aim for the centre
• ensure the occurrence is documented, reported to the Wildlife Agency in charge, and all
public enquiries are answered
Click to expand...

Partially Written and Compiled by: Sylvia Dolson based on contributions by Carrie Hunt, Dan LeGrandeur, Ben Kilham and Catherine Sherlock.2007
Click to expand...
 
As a last choice, I would choose any of the big antique .44 or .45 cartridges rather than screaming and then gurggling in my own blood.
Easy choice.
Click to expand...

I'm forced to agree. I put 20 or so rounds of Smokepoles 252gr out of the Webley in front of 6gr blue dot this past week. Made a hell of a mess of a cedar tree. I'd be fairly certain it'd ruin a bears day too. I'm sure there are better loads out there but a holstered 455 sure beats the antique remington I can't afford. :D
 
My 2 cents

Well...after reading what has been said here, and my own experience shooting black bears from 5 to 100 Meters my conclusions are as follows:

-Travel with a partner

-when the bear attacks shoot him as much as possible

-then give the gun to your partner

-kick him/her in the leg as hard as you can

AND RUN LIKE !@#$%^&&&* HELL!
 
stevejones said:
Well...after reading what has been said here, and my own experience shooting black bears from 5 to 100 Meters my conclusions are as follows:

-Travel with a partner

-when the bear attacks shoot him as much as possible

-then give the gun to your partner

-kick him/her in the leg as hard as you can

AND RUN LIKE !@#$%^&&&* HELL!
Click to expand...

Or simply travel with a partner you can outrun....
 
apu said:
Why, are they known to wear body armor? I have seen black bears taken with lesser "inferior" calibers. Unless you try to pop them in forehead, it's a good chance any lead pill is going to do more than hurt. I certainly would not actively hunt bear with most handgun calibers but as a defensive round likely ok. Starpuss is in Manitoba, so no grizzlies to worry about.
Click to expand...

No, thier known to have body structure more robust than a gerbil, therefore take your chances and attack with a spork instead.
 
In my case I cant run worth a crap so when I go down to our range for some handgun practice I'm usually alone as I'm retired and everyone else works. For peace of mind I have my Winchester 30.30 in close reach, a couple of loaded mags of .45ACP right beside my Colt and my Desert Eagle 357 with mags primed to go. I used to have my .44magnum but it was single action snd I thought i would get so excited I'd forget to pull the hammer back. Our range is quite a ways from the highway down into the bush so when Bruno gets through chewing me up he'd have a few guns to share with his buddies. But seriously I do keep the Winnie handy as there are lots of black bear in our local and since it's spring and they wake up hungry I dont take the chance. Get a 12guage with slugs and while you are on your knees praying take carefull aim.
 
Found this in another thread, figured it should go here. Keep in mind, them handgun bullets would have been fired at extremely close range, and being the US, would have been .44WCF, .44S&W, .45 Colt, etc.

At the turn of the last Century a Grizzly was killed in the Wyoming Territory. The Territorial Government posted a $10,000 in gold reward for this bear. It terrorized the countryside for twenty years before the reward was claimed. When it was finally brought in, it was learned that: It had over a hundred rifle bullets in its body. Besides the kill shot (a .30-40 Krag slug between the ears) it had five different medium and large bore pistol bullets lodged in the brain. None of them had killed it. All five had been fired into the brain from the bottom of its head. Those hunters never came back, along with a great many others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom