455 webley info

tactical870

tactical870

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Just made a deal on a super nice mkII webley 455 and I've got to find out a little more info about them. I understand the 455's were/are usually cut to accept 45 ACP with moon clips but this gun is an exceptional original. Any chance of finding an extra nitro proofed cylinder from a newer webley? Are there any canadian sources for 455? I've seen some brass and dies on the EE but very little loaded ammo and what is available seems to be very expensive. I thought there was some fiocci stuff around a few years back but again, these guns have never really interested me in the past. Until I actually held one I wasn't really into them at all. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
Buffalo Arms in the US sells Fiocci and Hornady. I bought some Hornady and it ended up costing me $1.50 a shot, but then you have some good cases to reload.
The downside is you need someone over 18 to ship it to, and sign for it, across the border, then go get it... but it is legal.
Also i just bought a set of Lee carbide dies for 40 bucks,... ordered it thru Gunco.
 
tactical870 said:
Just made a deal on a super nice mkII webley 455 and I've got to find out a little more info about them. I understand the 455's were/are usually cut to accept 45 ACP with moon clips but this gun is an exceptional original. Any chance of finding an extra nitro proofed cylinder from a newer webley? Are there any canadian sources for 455? I've seen some brass and dies on the EE but very little loaded ammo and what is available seems to be very expensive. I thought there was some fiocci stuff around a few years back but again, these guns have never really interested me in the past. Until I actually held one I wasn't really into them at all. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Elwood Epps sometimes has Hornady .455 brass @ $17.95/50 rounds.

Webley parts are pretty thin on the ground. A later cylinder doesn't just drop in, the conversions to Mk I** or similar were I believe done at the factory.
 
I've managed to find a little ammo and brass. I'm told 45 colt can be trimmed for a webley and that 45 colt bullets work. Can jacketed bullets be fired from a webley or am I stuck with lead? I'd like to load up some hornady XTP's if possible. Thanks
 
I have few 455 revolvers. A few years ago when I looked for brass, it was very expensive. Almost a dollar apiece. Instead I bought every box of the fiochi I could find, at about 50 bucks a box. I think the price of the fiochi is up too 75 bucks now but once you have brass you can reload them over and over. Maybe because of the low pressure but I've reloaded some brass ten times and the brass is still fine.
 
"...you need someone over 18 to ship it to..." You need a U.S. export permit for ammo or components. Buffalo Arms no longer ships either across the border. Speculation has it that the U.S. Government jumped on them.
Epp's does list .455 ammo. Likely Fiocchi. Not BP ammo.
 
Dont forget guys you can shorten 45 Long colt cases and get the forward side of the rims thinned so there just like 455 case Rims. ;)

I took a pile of 45 colt cases to my Machinist when i frist got into this he made up a few hundred cases for like $40.
I still have some of them kicking around. the 45 colt brass the newer solid head cases are nice and thick walled make great strong 455 cases for old wheel guns.
 
Some revolvers had their cylinders altered to accept .45ACP or .45 Auto Rim ammunition in an attempt to make them more saleable. This is very poor idea. The alteration is permanent, and the round is a bad choice. .45ACP ammunition pressures are about the same as .455 proof rounds. The bullet is the wrong size. Appropriate handloads can be assembled in .45 cases. Appropriate loads can also be assembled in correct .455 cases just as easily. Fresh modern ammuntion can be purchased, about $50/box. To permanently alter an antique for expedient use of incorrect ammunition is just plain wrong.
 
455 Ammo & Dies

Whoa Dere, partner, you bought a Webley? and your gonna reload for it? boy you just started on a long and slippery slope, there may be no hope for you now. I think I probably got a spare set of dies, if your interested? and I have some cast bullets suitable for it, whatever you do, please don't try and hot rod that ol' gal, 'cos she'll come back and bite you in the rear end, if you do.regards Bully
 
Bruno Gross (Bulleseye Reloading supplies Fairview Alberta) may have .455 brass and Stan Taylor of Torrington AB sold me ten boxes of .455 fiochi a year ago.
I would not shoot fiochi in an antique as it is made for the 1917 Smiths and the Colt double action. A black powder gun may wear out very quickly shooting Fiochi.
 
The Webley mk's 1 and 2 used a different cylinder and also a different method of cylinder retainment than the mk's 3 to 6 revolvers. So, you would need to find a cylinder for a Mk1 or 2 that hasn't been cut. Not an easy task! They almost never come up as spares.

You could just load 45 ACP cases Using 455 Webley load data.

Firing factory loads or using 45 ACP load data in these guns is like firing a steady diet of PROOF loads, not something you would want to do.

Slug your bore, you might be surprised that many of them were closer to .452 than .455. I have a mk1 that measures .449. It shoots 250gr .452 bullets fine.

Hope this helps, Jake
 
Have you had a close look at the proofmarks on the cylinder in the gun? - many were re-proofed for 'nitro' loads.
Come to think of it, a Mk II, designed to shoot the shorter Mk II case should be designed for cordite loads, not BP. Maybe one of the more knowledgable Webley buffs can confirm.
 
Smokepole said:
Have you had a close look at the proofmarks on the cylinder in the gun? - many were re-proofed for 'nitro' loads.
Come to think of it, a Mk II, designed to shoot the shorter Mk II case should be designed for cordite loads, not BP. Maybe one of the more knowledgable Webley buffs can confirm.
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Just because a Mk I or Mk II is Nitro Proofed, doesn't actually make it stronger. It's the same cylinder.
One of the rare Mk I** pistols is a crossover that has been factory updated to the stronger later cylinders...one is for sale now on the EE. It's also been updated to the removable recoil shield.

I agree about shooting .45acp, never shoot full power or hardball loads in them. Lead bullets downloaded to .455 Webley pressures are quite fine.

It was done because .455 brass and ammunition didn't exist at the time the big importation into the US took place.
 
cantom said:
Just because a Mk I or Mk II is Nitro Proofed, doesn't actually make it stronger. It's the same cylinder.
One of the rare Mk I** pistols is a crossover that has been factory updated to the stronger later cylinders...one is for sale now on the EE. It's also been updated to the removable recoil shield.

I agree about shooting .45acp, never shoot full power or hardball loads in them. Lead bullets downloaded to .455 Webley pressures are quite fine.

It was done because .455 brass and ammunition didn't exist at the time the big importation into the US took place.
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I agree.
just cause its Stamped NP dont meen its a New cylinder its just a Antique one that survived the Proof tests.
 
Smokepole said:
........ Come to think of it, a Mk II, designed to shoot the shorter Mk II case should be designed for cordite loads, not BP. Maybe one of the more knowledgable Webley buffs can confirm.
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Actually, the Mark II revolver was not "designed to shoot the shorter Mark II case" ......

Although the Webley service revolvers and .455 service cartridges each went through six "Marks", that was entirely coincidental, and their respective numbered versions do not in fact correspond to each other -

marksofrevolversandcartridges.jpg


Note that the Mark II service revolver was adopted in 1894, but the Mark II service cartridge did not come along until 1897 ....

And even though a cordite loading for the .455 revolver cartridge was first introduced in 1894 (in the original length Mark I case) neither the Mark II revolver (1894) nor the Mark III revolver (1897) versions were actually made any stronger to accommodate smokeless loads ..... Specific design changes to strengthen the service revolvers did not happen until the Mark IV revolver (1899), which was made with a stronger grade of steel, and then the Mark V revolver (1913) which had thickened chamber walls.
 
New .455 MKII brass is easy to get in canada now, no need to mess with trimming and thinning rims on .45LC. CGN member/dealer mysticplayer sent me 100 Hornady MKII brass for $52.50 shipped a couple months ago. I am using this brass with good results in MKI and MKII revolvers. NOTE: Hornady brass is large pistol primer, IIRC Fiocchi is small pistol primer. Hornady looks like better brass.

LEE .455 Webley dies are about $40, one of the site sponsors should be able to fix you up with Lee dies. I got mine mailorder from WSS.

I got bullets from Bullseye Reloading Supplies in Fairview AB. 265 gr .456 hollow base pure lead. Shoot really well with the Hornady brass and Unique powder.
 
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..... Hornady brass is large pistol primer, Fiocchi is small pistol primer. Hornady looks like better brass.
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I certainly agree with that assessment. I had one box of 50 Fiocchi factory loads for years ... didn't shoot them off until fairly recently, and likely won't bother reloading them ..... :rolleyes:

.... BULLETS - 265 gr .456 pure lead, hollow base .....
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Likely the same as (or at least very similar to) the bullets produced by the RCBS mould blocks which I sprang for a few years ago - mainly because by then I already had 3 0r 4 .455 bore revolvers. (Now I've got about nine of em .... ;) )

455RCBS.jpg


Well over Cdn$100 for these blocks now, but worth it if you're going to shoot a fair amount of .455 ......

455IIIb.jpg


Above are some of the bullets dropped by the RCBS mould.
The cartridges (from left to right) are:
1. Factory .455 Mark II cartridge
2. Factory .455 Mark I cartridge (actually a Dominion Cartridge Co. .455 Colt round, which is essentially a North American commercial designation for the Mark I)
3. Reload in a Dominion .455 Colt case, using the RCBS bullet
4. Reload in a Mark I case adapted from .45 Colt

.... .455 Webley LEE dies are about $40 ....
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The Lee dies are what I use ...... they work just fine for me.
 
GrantR; I like my Lee carbide dies too. Makes nice ammo with the new Hornady brass. Do you load smokeless or black powder loads?

Nine Webleys!!? I wish i had discovered Webley revolvers a few years ago when they were more reasonably priced. They have gone up in value a lot lately.
 
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