455 webley info

I've been reading a bit about the 455 bullets. From what I understand a keith style SWC stabilizes better and produces much better accuracy yet all the reloads I see are loaded with a RN bullet. Has anyone here actually loaded a jacketed round? I keep thinking a 240 gr hornady XTP would make a great bear defence round. Admittedly it's a slight bit undersize but I'm curious if it's been done before. Thanks for all the tips.
 
jethunter -

I load both black and smokeless (usually Win231, which I use in my .45 Colt cowboy action ammo) .......

Only four are Webleys - an RIC No. 1 'New Model' and a WG Target model, both of which are antiques, plus Mk V and Mk VI service revolvers. .... My ".455 family" also includes a Third Model Adams and Mk II Enfield (also antiques .... nominally .450 and .476, respectively, but both are really .455's, as you likely know .... a Colt New Service, a S&W Hand Ejector (WWI Canadian purchase) and one each of the Spanish-made pieces accepted into "substitute standard" service by the British War Department during WWI as the "Pistol Revolver, O.P." No. 1 and No. 2. ("O.P." signified "Old Pattern", because both were essentially knock-offs of the S&W double-action top-break design of about 1880.)

Hmmm ..... I guess that's ten, eh? I traded off a second Mk VI Webley service revolver a few months ago ..... Can you tell that I'm a bit of a .455 junky? :owned:

Here is a pic of most of the family, the Adams and one of the O.P.s not being included in this grouping .....

455s_03.jpg
 
I've been reading a bit about the 455 bullets. From what I understand a keith style SWC stabilizes better and produces much better accuracy yet all the reloads I see are loaded with a RN bullet. Has anyone here actually loaded a jacketed round? I keep thinking a 240 gr hornady XTP would make a great bear defence round. Admittedly it's a slight bit undersize but I'm curious if it's been done before. Thanks for all the tips.

Dont shoot jacketed bullets in your Antique webley.
They will raise the presures.
stick with lead bullets.
 
Sorry to be a bother Sir, that arm on the left hand side 2nd down....

What is it? It is a beautiful revolver!

I have never seen one like it...Stunning how the cylinder looks as if it is made of seperate bores fitted together on a solid base.

Cheers



jethunter -

I load both black and smokeless (usually Win231, which I use in my .45 Colt cowboy action ammo) .......

Only four are Webleys - an RIC No. 1 'New Model' and a WG Target model, both of which are antiques, plus Mk V and Mk VI service revolvers. .... My ".455 family" also includes a Third Model Adams and Mk II Enfield (also antiques .... nominally .450 and .476, respectively, but both are really .455's, as you likely know .... a Colt New Service, a S&W Hand Ejector (WWI Canadian purchase) and one each of the Spanish-made pieces accepted into "substitute standard" service by the British War Department during WWI as the "Pistol Revolver, O.P." No. 1 and No. 2. ("O.P." signified "Old Pattern", because both were essentially knock-offs of the S&W double-action top-break design of about 1880.)

Hmmm ..... I guess that's ten, eh? I traded off a second Mk VI Webley service revolver a few months ago ..... Can you tell that I'm a bit of a .455 junky? :owned:

Here is a pic of most of the family, the Adams and one of the O.P.s not being included in this grouping .....

455s_03.jpg
 
Beautiful???? You're kidding ..... right? :confused:

476_06a.jpg


That particular revolver is a .476 Enfield, the official British military service revolver from 1879 to 1887 - following the .450 Adams and preceding the .455 Webley. (As I indicated above, despite the nomenclature, both the Adams and Enfield cartridges use .455/.456 bullets, just like the Webley ...)

There were two Enfield models, the Mark I and Mark II (mine is the latter) designed and produced by the Royal Manufactory, Enfield Lock, when the War Department wanted a "self extracting" cartridge revolver to replace the solid-frame Adams, which had to be loaded and unloaded through a loading gate, one round at a time, like a Colt Model 1873 .....

The end result was a rather awkward and inconvenient system, to say the least. The odd protrusion of the lower front frame is shaped like that because of the extraction system they came up with .... in which the extractor star remains at the back of the cylinder axis pin, near the recoil shield when the revolver is broken open, while the entire cylinder is drawn forward .....

476_04a.jpg


The idea apparently was that the distinctively long-nosed bullets of unfired cartridges would remain in the chambers, so that only empty cases would drop free, while unfired rounds would be re-chambered when the revolver was closed up again .... a good thing in theory, because the design still required cartridges to be chambered one at a time through a loading gate, so it would be great to be able to take advantage of any convenient lull in the action to "top up"!

In practice, however, the rims of any such unfired cartridges are prone to slip clear of the extractor star and weight of the bullets will then cause them to drop back into the chamber. Now you've got a real problem, because the rims of any such cartridges are now ahead of the extractor star .... preventing the revolver from being closed fully .... yet such loaded cartridges are too long to be easily cleared ..... not a very desirable situation when you really need to reload! :(

This impractical design proved to be extremely unpopular, and steps were soon taken to replace it with something better - which happened with acceptance of the Mark I Webley in 1887. In the meantime, however, the Enfield was adopted in 1883 as the official sidearm of the North West Mounted Police, who kept it in service until 1904, when the Colt New Service revolver was chosen to replace it.

My revolver is an 1884-dated Mark II, and was NWMP issue ....

476_02a.jpg


The cylinder is one-piece, and is machined that way to reduce weight - as it is, the unloaded revolver weighs over 2 1/2 pounds!

cyl02.jpg


cyl05.jpg
 
Very sturdy looking arm!
I cannot help but find it beautiful.....

We Canadians are "or used to be;)" a very practicle people, it must have its merits as we kept it in service for so long.

I like it, its unique styling and interesting ejector system just add to it!

At 2.5 lbs I assume that it doubles as a club??? "har har har pardon me"



Very nice revolver,great history and fantastic post

Thanks Sir!
 
Well ..... maybe more a matter of Government #####rdliness ..... by the same officials who were responsible for keeping the Snider-Enfield rifle in Canadian military service into the 20th century!

At any rate, a couple of period images ....

NWMP Constable, 1893 -
nwmp93.jpg


NWMP Revolver Drill, 1902 -
nwmp%2702.jpg
 
nothing like 4 inches of hat brim blocking your view of everything and anything that might shoot back. LOL. 'keep your head up and your stick on the ice'........ the great advancement in canadian martial philosophy.
 
Don't forget that the intrepid "Queen's Cowboys" were drilled to keep their heads up and their steely gaze fixed firmly on their objective .........

(..... except when looking down for some specific reason , of course ...... ;) :rolleyes: )

NWMPconstablewithwinchester.jpg
nwmp1897b.jpg


That nice broad brim was indeed an advancement, actually.
Having spent many a day under the relentless Western sun myself, I can testify that the stetson is certainly much preferable over the relatively ineffective helmet, and most definitely over the totally useless pillbox!

Cartridgebelt01.jpg
 
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nothing like 4 inches of hat brim blocking your view of everything and anything that might shoot back. LOL. 'keep your head up and your stick on the ice'........ the great advancement in canadian martial philosophy.

Well I can tell you out of experience, that the design of Canada's modern military helmets do a wonderful job of obscuring your vision if trying to shoot from the prone position too. So apparently the philosophy remains.

Grant, I'm hoping to bring that mkIV out to NB with me after Christmas.
 
Ok... So I've got 300 rounds of new hornady brass on it's way, just got 2 boxes of original ammo for the webley and a friend has dies. What I'm looking for now is bullets. Are there any different options for bullets or am I stuck with the long tapered RN webley bullet? I'd like a keith style SWC or a HP or similar hunting/defense type bullet if possible. Anyone make speedloaders that will work with a webley? Thanks.
 
. What I'm looking for now is bullets. Are there any different options for bullets or am I stuck with the long tapered RN webley bullet?

If you want accuracy, I think you are stuck with the long tapered ones. I think the reason for the long tapered nose is because the breach end of a Webley barrel is not coned. OMA Products in Nanaimo sells the bullets

cheers mooncoon
 
I havn't done a lot of reloading but the long bullets with the hollow base adds some volume to the tiny case. The original cases had more volume around the primers too. So new solid head cases + non hollow base bullet means you will need less powder to make the same pressure. The Mk-1 case might be better for a swc. I don't think you'll have much luck with speedloaders for .455 cases. If you use shortened .45 colt cases with thinned rims I bet the speedloader would work, but those rounds might not eject as well as the .455 rounds.
 
I've done a little reading on the 455 and the info I found comments on the poor stability of the RN bullet and how a Keith style SWC stabilizes better. Of course you guys all have more experience with these than myself. I may try trimming some 45 colt cases to make a little hotter round. Anyone know the muzzle velocity for the webley? Thanks
 
I've done a little reading on the 455 and the info I found comments on the poor stability of the RN bullet and how a Keith style SWC stabilizes better. Of course you guys all have more experience with these than myself. I may try trimming some 45 colt cases to make a little hotter round. Anyone know the muzzle velocity for the webley? Thanks

Aim for 655fps or so. Any more and you're stressing the poor old black powder gun...
 
I have used a couple of slugs one intended for a colt 45 auto and another for the 45 long colt. Both are a little undersize and the heavier ones for the long colt shot better than the 45 auto. Neither shot nearly as well as the long pointed slugs intended for the webley

cheers mooncoon
 
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