455 Webley MkII Load data anyone?

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Moe

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I have limited load data available to me. Just the data on with the set of Lee dies. I'm loading this for a 450CF Webley RIC. Only want to use smokeless powder. Anyone want to share there loads with me?

Thanks
Moe
 
About 35 years ago I had a .450 Webley RIC and used .455 Mk.II brass with a 250gr. Lyman 454190 plain base bullet.
I found I had to use a tight crimp to get them to chamber correctly (without trimming) in my RIC as the .455 Mk. II brass is 0.77" compared to 450 CF (or 450 Adams) length of 0.69".
I used small charges of Bullseye which chronographed at around 600fps., and I seem to remember that they were around 2.6 to 2.8 grains, but can't be sure now.
I would advise real caution if you have to "wing-it" using smokeless as I don't believe the small RICs were anywhere near as strong as any of the larger-framed .455 top-break Webley
revolvers
 
Thanks folks. I have followed the lee data so far. After 4 squibs and several 275 to 400 fps with 3.0 of red dot and 420 to 500 fps loads with 3.2 of red dot but 450 to 500 with 3.8 of unique I believe the unique will be the used powder for now. Might try the blue dot as it fills the case more. Using 255 gr FP Hornady .454 cowboy loads and 230 gr .451 LRN 45ACP bullets. Both shot well with the Hornady slightly tighter.

Loaded up another batch to try. 3.3gr red dot and 4.3gr unique. After the rather flaccid results this weekend I decided to up the charge slightly to just below the Lee published max. I also put a bit more crimp on. I really think I will be well below the stout 455 Fiocchi factory 262gr loading. That stuff was nasty.

Cheers
Moe
 
I haven't used red dot but use unique. Your on the low side for Unique. I use one of my 250 gr bullets sized to 0.454 in S&W 455. A charge of 5grs of Unique with a heavy crimp. The one problem with Unique is dirty burning with lighter bullets and weak crimps. I am currently trying a 45acp taper and it was working good at 50m. Most of my cases are modified 45 Colt with rims thinned and reduced to 0.980 in length. I have also been trying Bullseye which is showing some promise. A fun gun to shoot.
 
Snider shooter said:
I haven't used red dot but use unique. Your on the low side for Unique. I use one of my 250 gr bullets sized to 0.454 in S&W 455. A charge of 5grs of Unique with a heavy crimp. The one problem with Unique is dirty burning with lighter bullets and weak crimps. I am currently trying a 45acp taper and it was working good at 50m. Most of my cases are modified 45 Colt with rims thinned and reduced to 0.980 in length. I have also been trying Bullseye which is showing some promise. A fun gun to shoot.
Click to expand...

Your the second guy I heard using 5gr of unique. It's off the chart from the Lee data but since others are doing it with success I might risk it moving up slowly over 4.4 until I hit 5.0 . Some of the data out there is over 6gr but that seems sketchy. I also have a factory crimp die that does a nice job. I'm going out to the range tonight to see how the heavier loads I made go. Will report back provided I still have fingers to type.

Cheers
Moe
 
Unique should work well in any of the old British rounds. The 450 , webley 455 mkI and mkII. Not much difference in pressure in any of the loadings I have used 6 grs of Unique in 450 but with a 200 gr bullet. Didn't shoot worth a damn and didn't shoot to point of aim. No matter which I was loading for a heavier bullet was needed. Over the weekend I tried one of my 45 acp 230 gr cast with 5 grs of Unique, still shooting low but but grouping was good. I have also tried black powder which worked well.
 
I'm currently experimenting with this combination too.

Both 200gr .452" cast and 220gr .457" shoot really well. 4.0 of unique is on the light side. 4.4 is decent and I will probably not go much past 5. A bit dirty but I'm confident it's not abusive to the guns I have.
 
Moe said:
..... I really think I will be well below the stout 455 Fiocchi factory 262gr loading. That stuff was nasty.

Cheers
Moe
Click to expand...



Fiocchi "factory .455 loadings" have killed more than a few antique revolvers, esp. "Belgian bulldogs".... :eek:



I'll willingly admit to my error in using it if doing so in any way deters others from using it in their "but they're solid-frame!" bulldog-style revolvers... :redface:


On the positive side, a person probably won't get a chance to "shoot to pieces" a bulldog-style revolver with Fiocchi .455, because after 1-2 rounds anything that would have cycled the revolver and work the hammer... probably no longer will... :yingyang:



What I can speak highly of from positive personal (at least in Mk.1 Webley top-breaks) is 3.7 grains on IMR 700X.
 
Wow folks this thread has provided an abundance of data. Thank you all so much. Well tonight my loads were much more productive. No spitting, no squibs, good groups, and all smiles. My buddy brought along a Webley MkVI and my loads were a laser in it. He said my loads were able to be bumped up more and his handloads were quite stouter than mine but not as bad as Fiocchi. I have many of the powders you are using on hand and might do some testing with them.

Cheers
Moe
 
If you can't find anything that improves the accuracy take a close look at the cylinder throats and the bore diameter. On many the throats are smaller than the bore so the bullet is being sized down too much before it hits the rifling. This is why the hollow base bullets in so many Webley loads.

Some go to a gunsmith to them reamed. I'm lucky that mine is about the same right through at about .451".
 
vagrantviking said:
If you can't find anything that improves the accuracy take a close look at the cylinder throats and the bore diameter. On many the throats are smaller than the bore so the bullet is being sized down too much before it hits the rifling. This is why the hollow base bullets in so many Webley loads.

Some go to a gunsmith to them reamed. I'm lucky that mine is about the same right through at about .451".
Click to expand...


This happens in many revolvers.

In the case of the 455, the best bullets I've used for it have all been cast with a hollow base

Fiocchi ammo is HOT, to hot for the old antique pistols IMHO.

When brass was hard to find, I shot the Fiocchi out of a New Century S&W first, then reloaded it appropriately for the older/weaker actions.
 
I shoot Fiocchi 265 gr commercial ammo in both my Webley MK1**, i have a 4 inch and a 6 inch.

Over the Oehler this ammo from the 4 inch is just below 800 fps, the 6 inch one push them at 825 fps.

Both my pistols are proofed.
I bought 500 rounds of this ammo, last summer i used 150 rounds, i am keeping my empties, i have a Lee set of die, i have BlueDot powder,primer and hollow base 265 gr Webley MKll, when i am out i will duplicate those speed in my respective pistol.
 
vagrantviking said:
If you can't find anything that improves the accuracy take a close look at the cylinder throats and the bore diameter. On many the throats are smaller than the bore so the bullet is being sized down too much before it hits the rifling. This is why the hollow base bullets in so many Webley loads.

Some go to a gunsmith to them reamed. I'm lucky that mine is about the same right through at about .451".
Click to expand...

Oh I didn't mind the accuracy I have from my loads. The old RIC was shooting as good as my newer guns last night at the indoor range.

caramel said:
I shoot Fiocchi 265 gr commercial ammo in both my Webley MK1**, i have a 4 inch and a 6 inch.

Over the Oehler this ammo from the 4 inch is just below 800 fps, the 6 inch one push them at 825 fps.

Both my pistols are proofed.
I bought 500 rounds of this ammo, last summer i used 150 rounds, i am keeping my empties, i have a Lee set of die, i have BlueDot powder,primer and hollow base 265 gr Webley MKll, when i am out i will duplicate those speed in my respective pistol.
Click to expand...

Since your going to reload the Fiocchi brass be aware that Fiocchi 455 MkII is using small pistol primers, while most makes of 455 MkII like Starline use large pistol primers. With the exact same load and regular small and large primers respectfully I found the small primer brass (Fiocchi) produced 100fps slower velocities. To make up for this I now use small magnum primers in this brass.

Cheers
Moe
 
I have some of the small primer cases and I would never have expected that much difference in performance. (Really need to get a chronograph!)
Most likely will set them aside for a French 1874 I found that is rechambered to 455 and use the others in a MkVI.
 
I was at the range last night and I noticed several projectiles bouncing back to the firing line from the rubber backstop. Definitely thinking I need to pump up the load .1 or .2 ok .4

Cheers
Moe
 
It's an indoor range and got CFO inspection last week with a thumbs up. It's a thick rubber sheet in front of the angled steel back stop.

Moe
 
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