.458 Lott

Thanks for the words of encouragement, the X got half and I've got some digging to do.(to get back to where I was) Hahaha
No worries lots of game in B.C. yet for me to take. If I do get a chance my African guns are ready at least.
 
Kimberman,

I spend just a little too much time with nagging doubts wondering if my .416 Rigby kills any better than the .375s do. Oh, I know it oughta, hell everyone says it should but I haven't seen a whole lot of convincing that it actually does. Quite the opposite actually.

Whether that means I'll be happier when my .458 shows up, or if I should stay with the H&H, I don't know.:confused:
 
A 450 Rigby would be nice!...Would also give a nice reason to pack the heavy magnum action.
The 470 Mbogo would also be an awesome choice...One of these days!

I have to agree with Boomer on the Lott...I avoid tapered necks and 3 die sets when ever I can, but the truth is they are all as cool as hell..Pick one and have some fun!
 
Here's the problem with the big bores as I see it. A client going to Africa will want to take a variety of plains game in addition to any dangerous game he has on his license. But it is easier/cheaper to travel with a single firearm and some countries charge you a couple of hundred bucks for each firearm you bring into the country. In addition to that, the airlines have a maximum weight for ammunition, and while at first glance that limit appears to be generous, it is eaten up quickly by big cartridges like those based on the .378 Weatherby, the Nitro Express big bores, the .416 Rigby, or for that matter shotgun shells in the case of the adventurous wing shooter.

The African (Australian, New Zealand, Argentinean, Asian) bound hunter therefore should consider if taking a single rifle rather than a battery of rifles is something he can live with. Most African countries have a 9.3 or a .375 mimimum for dangerous game, so you won't have the opportunity to choose a small bore as your one rifle choice. But where the big bores are only useful for short to medium range, a .375 or a .416 can reach out well beyond where common sense should give us pause, and they have the versatility to not only take large and dangerous game like the big cats, buffalo, hippo, and elephants, they can also take small game like the miniature antelope or a baboon without blowing them to pieces. If buffalo is the only dangerous game you intend to hunt, you can even get by without solids and shoot everything with a single load like a 270 or 300 gr TSX in the case of a .375 or in the case of the .416, a .416/350 gr TSX. If you are on a strictly plains game hunt, any rifle suitable for North American big game will serve you well in Africa; although my personal minimum would be a .30/06, there's no reason why any cartridge from a 6.5 on up wouldn't work.

Back to the big bores though, the client doesn't need a stopping rifle, that is the PH's job, there should be books written on how to choose the right PH for a dangerous game hunt! But if the part of the African experience that matters to you is taking a big critter with a Nitro Express chambered double, then by all means have at it; just don't make a double your only rifle. That will cost you opportunities.
 
X-fan said:
A 450 Rigby would be nice!...Would also give a nice reason to pack the heavy magnum action.
The 470 Mbogo would also be an awesome choice...One of these days!

I have to agree with Boomer on the Lott...I avoid tapered necks and 3 die sets when ever I can, but the truth is they are all as cool as hell..Pick one and have some fun!
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Don't have a Mbogo (yet), but I have a 475 Ackley that is calling me back to Africa. - dan
 
B said:
Anything Weatherby is no good IMO as far as cartridges. The list of inherent problems is pretty significant.
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Sorry guys way off topic but my 257Wby is my Deer Go to gun, it's accurate & reliable...mind you I rigged it up with a timney as the stock trigger did suck!!!
 
dan belisle said:
Don't have a Mbogo (yet), but I have a 475 Ackley that is calling me back to Africa. - dan
Click to expand...

What sort of performance are your getting from that package?
Have you tried 600grainers? :)

The 475 Ackley looks like a cigar (see-gar) lol!
 
I'm with Dogleg on the .375 question. I shot my buff, and all plains game with a .375 H&H, and it had the same effect on all of them as my PH's .458 Lott (from his words, he never shot any of my game fortunately). Dead is dead, and the .375 certainly kills. I still bought myself a .416, but I doubt I'll use it as I found nothing wanting in the .375's performance, as a matter of fact, it was stellar and I couldn't have asked for more right up to Cape Buffalo. Kind of a don't-fix-it situation. Now with the 350gr Barnes TSX, I really don't feel undergunned for anything on the planet. I'm heading back to Africa for elephant in the future here, and I'm struggling with which gun to use, the .416 or the .375. I'm actually thinking I'm going .375 again, with a 350gr bullet, and I doubt I'll be dissapointed.
 
I did the Africa thing (plains game/buffalo) with a .375H&H, and had intended to take a .416Rigby along as well, but had last minute problems with the rifle and wound up taking just the one gun. The .375 was just as perfect as you always hear...easy to shoot, accurate, flat-shooting enough for anything reasonable, and deadly...worked on everything.

The thing is, after shooting a .375 for decades on deer, moose, black bear, coyotes, crows, and tin cans, you get accustomed to using what everyone is calling a "big gun"....but it isn't a big gun when you're hunting buffalo. Suddenly you're using just an "adequate" gun, but when you are accustomed to big guns, "adequate" won't cut the mustard...you want BIG!

Sure, a Rigby is "big", depending on your point of reference, but it's expensive to buy the gun, the ammo, the dies, even the components...and it's not that much more gun than the .375.

A .458 (win or Lott) can be bought much more cheaply, can be reloaded cheaply, can be downloaded to .45-70 ballistics easily, and yet can still step in and be a big gun when you want or need it to be. You can shoot it until the cows come home without breaking the bank, and then when the chips are down you will be holding and using a gun with which you are totally familiar and comfortable. Bring on that elephant! Yeah, a double would be even better, especially one in a .458 caliber Nitro cartridge that could use the cheap components for practice...but look at the price tag for the gun! Yikes!...that's a good start on another safari tied up in one rifle!

As Ardent says, don't #### around waiting...make the move and do the hunt, it's easier and more painless than you think...and if you have any romance or sentiment in your soul, do it with a gun that BELONGS in Africa!

And as for the .257Weatherby someone mentioned...is that a rimfire?:D

John
 
jjohnwm said:
And as for the .257Weatherby someone mentioned...is that a rimfire?:D

John
Click to expand...

I do believe it's a small varmint cartridge, in the pocket gopher class. I have it on good authority Weatherby cartridges have killed more barrels than game. :eek:

Here is a great quote regarding medium bore and up cartridges for Africa, this one more or less centered on the fantastic though sadly rare .404 Jeffery, but there is a good deal of commentary that carries through to other cartridges discussed here. Particularily Weatherby and the horrendous rifles they produce along with them.

“I heard the following story from a Professional Hunter with years of experience in Zimbabwe and South Africa:

When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”
Click to expand...
 
Ardent said:
I'm with Dogleg on the .375 question. I shot my buff, and all plains game with a .375 H&H, and it had the same effect on all of them as my PH's .458 Lott (from his words, he never shot any of my game fortunately). Dead is dead, and the .375 certainly kills. I still bought myself a .416, but I doubt I'll use it as I found nothing wanting in the .375's performance, as a matter of fact, it was stellar and I couldn't have asked for more right up to Cape Buffalo. Kind of a don't-fix-it situation. Now with the 350gr Barnes TSX, I really don't feel undergunned for anything on the planet. I'm heading back to Africa for elephant in the future here, and I'm struggling with which gun to use, the .416 or the .375. I'm actually thinking I'm going .375 again, with a 350gr bullet, and I doubt I'll be dissapointed.
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I'm sure you've seen this article in "African Hunter", but here it is for others - it talks about the .375 H7H for Elephants:

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/firearms/375_elephant_01.htm
 
Yep, mine switched to .375 from .458 Lott not long after my hunt (unrelated to my experiences, he just noticed the client's .375's were doing just as well of amped up buff as his .458 Lott, that is to say it's all about shot placement and 'insurance' for slightly off shots is overrated). A couple weeks after he switched, he had to stop a full on charge at 4 paces. He'd been charged before, but that one left him seeing a charging buff everytime he closed his eyes in his words, rattled him. The bull had been wounded by a bow hunter and he was following into really thick jess. He's still carrying the .375 so I'm sure he likes the performance. Any of the suitable cartridges will do it, but seeing as there's only one outcome, dead, and no halfway point, and all cartridges .375 and up get the game there... I'm rambling, but to summarize, well I'm happy with the .375 and love having it on hand when Impala culling starts up for instance. I like the versatility more than anything, it's a sligt compromise, not perfect, not superior to all others, just a damn fine middle ground that'll do anything you ask of it with a competent operator. Works for me.
 
Quote:
“I heard the following story from a Professional Hunter with years of experience in Zimbabwe and South Africa:

When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”


I recall reading somewhere that Weatherby started to get a bad rep many years ago when rich boys that had never hunted before would show up in camp with a spiffy new Weatherby rifle, expecting the gun to more than compensate for any poor shooting they might do.
"Its a Weatherby, all I have to do is come close and the shock will kill it"


And for the record, I've never hunted Africa, and probably never will, but I did take a large black bear with a 458WinMag many years ago. No complaints from the bear!
 
B said:
Anything Weatherby is no good IMO as far as cartridges. The list of inherent problems is pretty significant.
Click to expand...

What utter BS. Please list these so called inherent problems??
I have yet to own a Weatherby cartridge that doesn't shoot MOA or better.
 
444shooter said:
What utter BS. Please list these so called inherent problems??
I have yet to own a Weatherby cartridge that doesn't shoot MOA or better.
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I think he's getting at how they're all generally visciously overbore, and perform poorly in African heat (my PH expressed anger, not just frustration, at the varius clients' Weatherby problems he'd faced over the decades in Africa). He suspected that high pressures, 40C degree days, and that radiused shoulder loved to hug chamber walls and fail to extract. Mechanical issues with the guns, such as the fine red dust preventing the Mark V's from working due to it getting all through the gazzillion tight little locking lugs, was another complaint. Plus, many seem to be muzzle braked, something that just plain does not work in Africa. Overall, PH's hate them it seems. Just fine for North America, visciously poor for Africa.
 
People need to read the book Weatherby - The Man. The Gun. The Legend. It details how many times Roy hunted in Africa and thoroughly tested his rifles in the enviroment. Most of those PH comments are bias and unfounded. The RUM's are used there too, and are more overbore than any Weatherby.
 
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