.458 Lott

my 300 Wby Deluxe Mk V seemed to do just fine in Africa.....took lots of game....

You must have confused this with another gun. HAHAHA
I have used weatherby for years now and would take one to Africa. But with handloads. I could only get 2550 or a little less with the 460, so pressures would be good. You run out of case capacity even on the 460. I think a brake is too loud and my 510 Wells built on a Weatherby has no brake. I would go to africa with this gun.
 
I'm amazed that no one has thought to neck up the 375RUM as of yet. It even has a respectable ammount of body taper to ensure proper feeding............though it has that nasty rebated rim. It would have more than adequate shoulder, and probably give a bit more velocity than a 458 Lott.......or even better, the same velocity at lower pressure so that one didn't run into problems in the heat of Africa.
Mike

Its called the .460 G&A and loaded with 90 grs of 4064 drives a 500 gr bullet about 2300 from a 20" barrel. That would be my top choice for a .45 caliber bolt gun, although there is nothing a .45 could do that a .50 couldn't do better. When I conceived my rifle, I had intended to loosely base it on Jeff Cooper's "Baby," but a killer deal on a Smith .375 barrel shifted my focus. Cooper used his Brno extensively through the '80s and '90s and declared the .460 G&A the ultimate cartridge for African dangerous game following his experiences in Rhodesia and Botswana. As for the rebated rim,I've never had a failure to feed with my .375 Ultra, although the top round in the magazine should be nosed against the front of the magazine, then the recoil of the top round positions the subsequent rounds.
 
And from what I have read, it pushes the bullet too fast, causing it to shatter on heavy game, giving actually less penatration.

This is like putting regular gasoline in a race car and expecting the same performance as everyone else. If you want high performance, use high performance equipment. Premium bullets.

Guys are having the same problem with some magnums. They won't use good bullets because they cost too much and are seeing low end bullets fragment.

Match the tool to the task, in my opinion.
 
None - because I kept it meticulously clean and in a gun case while I road hunted, only removing it once I saw the deer and turned off the truck's engine!:)




It was a bit colder than Africa....plus my handloads, while warm, were certainly not over-the-top.

As Ardent pointed out they seem to be fine in North America, and while I have almost exactly zero experience in Africa, I too have read and heard, almost exclusively negative things about Weatherby cartridges and Mk. Vs in Africa. Since I have no experience I am not about to argue with folks who see more action in 2 months than most of us will in a lifetime. The PH doesn't have an interest, other than safety, in rifle/cartridge choice. There are many against Weatherby and I have yet to see a single independent article/comment singing the Weatherby's praises.

Same goes for the .416 RM - and I owned one of those too!

Lets not be bashin the 416 Rem. I've owned 3 Rigby's and I think I'm on my third 416 Rem. I'll never sell this one. It's an awsome round. High pressure stuff is bull. It'll push 400s well past 2400 easy. With no pressure. With 350 TSXs it's a super 375 with the same reach. The Rem can be put in a much small package than the Rigby and does basically the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I like the Rigby too. Very cool round and very powerfull when loaded with modern loads. Like a 350 TSX at 2850. That was my Mulie load one season.
 
I must chime in against the Weatherby slagging relative to Africa.

My 300 Mk V (Japanese with KDF brake) has been my go to rifle for 34 years. It has been in the Arctic to hunting Alberta in all temperatures to Texas and to Africa.

It has never, ever failed me. I load 180 gr Nosler Ballistic or Accubond to 3200 ft/sec with IMR7828.

I lost count in Africa of the numbers it took as we were meat culling Kudu and Gemsbok. But it also took everything else including Eland at a very healthy range and Wildebeast like nothing.

My PHs, who I now consider as my friends, cared little but for saftey of the rifle and if I was safe around them. We were rained on, dusted up but good, temperatures in the low to mid 40s - and all was good. No jams, no misfires, no bad things. Just lucky maybe.

Sure I could have used any number of other guns - BRNOs which I love, doubles which I love (which I do) but I saw nothing wrong with bringing the gal that you know and love the best.

We performed magic in the fields of Africa on several occassions - sure the rifle helped, but that thing and me are joined at the hip.
 
Lets not be bashin the 416 Rem. I've owned 3 Rigby's and I think I'm on my third 416 Rem. I'll never sell this one. It's an awsome round. High pressure stuff is bull. It'll push 400s well past 2400 easy. With no pressure. With 350 TSXs it's a super 375 with the same reach. The Rem can be put in a much small package than the Rigby and does basically the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I like the Rigby too. Very cool round and very powerfull when loaded with modern loads. Like a 350 TSX at 2850. That was my Mulie load one season.

AMEN! :D

I think the 416 Remmy got bad press because of hot loads in hot sun with RL-15.
While RL-15 is the perfect powder for the 416Rem it is not necessarily the best choice for a hot African day.

Ross Seyfried uses the 416Rem for a backup rifle...That speaks volumes to me.
 
AMEN! :D

I think the 416 Remmy got bad press because of hot loads in hot sun with RL-15.
While RL-15 is the perfect powder for the 416Rem it is not necessarily the best choice for a hot African day.

Ross Seyfried uses the 416Rem for a backup rifle...That speaks volumes to me.

I used RL15 and 350 X as well. I also had good results with H4895.
 
Yup, Rel. 15 seems to be the ticket. Shot my first Elk back in 89-90 when the 416 first came out. That spring a bunch of us had them made up. 300 X bullet at 2950 in front of 91 grs. Rel.15. Sorta a giant 270. The Barnes bullets were quite new then too.
 
Sorry, we're getting way off the topic. Had my 458 Safari Express cut to 21" and the spacer removed from the box. Bolt stop and ejecter moved back. I can load Lott length and my factory chamber is plenty long enough. I'll probably go Lott in the spring. It shot too good to mess with before the season. Unless someone wants to buy it. Hahaha
 
I must chime in against the Weatherby slagging relative to Africa.

My 300 Mk V (Japanese with KDF brake) has been my go to rifle for 34 years. It has been in the Arctic to hunting Alberta in all temperatures to Texas and to Africa.

It has never, ever failed me. I load 180 gr Nosler Ballistic or Accubond to 3200 ft/sec with IMR7828.

I lost count in Africa of the numbers it took as we were meat culling Kudu and Gemsbok. But it also took everything else including Eland at a very healthy range and Wildebeast like nothing.

My PHs, who I now consider as my friends, cared little but for saftey of the rifle and if I was safe around them. We were rained on, dusted up but good, temperatures in the low to mid 40s - and all was good. No jams, no misfires, no bad things. Just lucky maybe.

Sure I could have used any number of other guns - BRNOs which I love, doubles which I love (which I do) but I saw nothing wrong with bringing the gal that you know and love the best.

We performed magic in the fields of Africa on several occassions - sure the rifle helped, but that thing and me are joined at the hip.

Nice to hear from someone that actually has experience with Weatherby in Africa. As mentioned before, Roy spent MANY years testing his cartridges and rifles in Africa and they never failed him. Read his pressure tests with the .300Wby and try that in a non Weatherby and see what happens ;)
 
Read his pressure tests with the .300Wby and try that in a non Weatherby and see what happens ;)

Like 155,000psi in this Heym SR30?

SR30_1.jpg

SR30_2.jpg

SR30_3.jpg

SR30_4.jpg



There is one Weatherby that I'd really like to own - scaled down Mark V in .250 Savage. I think it was only built for 1 or 2 years. It has 6 locking lugs instead of the 9 and is significantly lighter than the full size version. I believe it was 6 1/2 lbs or so with a wood stock.
 
Like 155,000psi in this Heym SR30?

SR30_1.jpg

SR30_2.jpg

SR30_3.jpg

SR30_4.jpg



There is one Weatherby that I'd really like to own - scaled down Mark V in .250 Savage. I think it was only built for 1 or 2 years. It has 6 locking lugs instead of the 9 and is significantly lighter than the full size version. I believe it was 6 1/2 lbs or so with a wood stock.

Well, that "was" a nice gun.
I can honestly say that if I where to build a 375H&H (that would be my step up from a 30-06), that I would start with a Weatherby Mark V barreled-action. If your worried about grunge in the locking lug recesses, just use a 12 guage nylon brush.
Mike
 
Here is the testing that was done.....try that in the Heym ;)

Testing the Mark V Action
This fifth and final prototype action had been built with the help of
a newly-hired engineer, Fred Jennie. It was even more streamlined,
and also incorporated a new simplified trigger and safety mechanism
to reduce tooling and manufacturing costs.
Was this the safest action ever produced, as Weatherby claimed? Roy
thought that, finally, it was time to subject his new action to vigorous
performance tests. Built on the prototype action, a rifle in .300
Weatherby Magnum caliber was used for the tests. Prior to any firing,
careful measurements were taken of the diameter of the bolt face
housing, head space measurements were recorded, and all other
pertinent dimensions.
The first test firing was with a cartridge that had been loaded with
82 grains of 4350 DuPont powder, using the 180-gr. bullet. This load
gave an average breech pressure of 65,000 psi. After firing, there was
no sign of pressure and extraction was easy. The same 82-gr.load was
fired in the Mauser action and a slight sticking of the cartridge case
resulted. Four more loads with the powder charge being increased in
two-grain increments were prepared, each one using 4350 powder and
the 180-gr. bullet. After firing the 84-gr.load, there was still no sign of
pressure and no sticking of the cartridge case, even though the breech
pressure had been increased to almost 75,000 psi. When firing this
84-gr load in the Mauser action, it caused a blown primer and it was
almost an impossibility to extract the cartridge case.
When the load was increased to 86 grains in the Mark V, the
cartridge case began to show signs of pressure, but it still did not stick
and extracted easily. Breech pressures were 85,000 to 95,000 psi. A
measurement of this fired cartridge case showed that it had stretched
at the belt by .0005 inches
. When the 88-gr.load was fired in the Mark
V with pressures in the neighborhood of 100,000 psi, there was a slight
sticking of the cartridge case making the bolt slightly difficult to open,
but the cartridge case could still be easily extracted. In measuring the
belt again, it had now swelled .002 of an inch, from .533 to .535
.
For the final test the cartridge case was filled with powder, leveling
it off at the top. This was 90 grains of powder. Mter firing, the bolt was
difficult to open, but without exerting too much pressure it could be
opened and the case extracted. There were now extreme signs of
pressure on the case, but no gas had escaped back into the magazine
and the primers showed very slight signs of leaking. The belt of the
cartridge case still measured .535 inches. Mter this firing, a difference
between the outside diameter of the head of the bolt and the inside
diameter of the barrel of .004 inches (or .002 a side) was noted. Even
with this terrific overload, there was still no swelling or damage to any
part of the bolt, receiver or barrel. The head space was checked
between each test firing and at no time was there any change noted in
the head space.
Weatherby was extremely excited after these tests, and felt certain
that the Mark V would be the safest action of all time!
Some time later, after additional working models of this prototype
had been produced, one last experiment was made. A 180-gr. .30
caliber bullet was lodged in the throat of the barrel
. A standard load of
78 grains of 4350 and the 180-gr. bullet was chambered and fired, with
the following results: both bullets traveled out the barrel, pressures
were tremendously high, the primer was pierced letting gases enter
the interior of the bolt, hitting the firing pin sleeve which acted as a
piston, loosening the bolt sleeve cap somewhat. The bolt was opened
by hand. The cartridge case remained in the chamber, but no problem
was involved in tapping it out with a steel rod. The case appeared to
be in very good condition with the exception of the primer being
pierced.
In checking the dimensions of the barrel and action, it was found
that the barrel in front of the receiver ring expanded from 1.147 inches
to 1.1496 inches. The diameter of the bolt head expanded from. 7178
to. 7190. Head space increased from .2163 to .2174. All other dimen-
sions remained the same as prior to the test.
This experiment was repeated 15 additional times. The severest test
was when a 220-gr. bullet was placed in the bore, and a standard
180-gr. round fired in back of it
. On this particular firing, the head
diameter of the cartridge increased to .545 inches. It was also noted
after these additional IS firings that the head space was set back a mere
.001. This was truly the ultimate in tests for the strength and safety of
this remarkable new action.
 
Back to the .458 Lott - luckily she was shooting at a Grant's Gazelle, not something meaner and en route to her location! (she mentioned it was a .458 Lott in a different video)

[youtube]ugFAjwM7S60[/youtube]
 
444shooter - with all due respect, I have a difficult time believing the claims in that article you posted. The weak link is the brass, which will fail around 80,000psi or so, making me quite skeptical of the 100,000psi = slight sticking of the case. No sign of pressure at 75,000psi? Please. What kind of primers were they using?

Sounds like good ol' American propaganda/marketing to me.
 
There is one Weatherby that I'd really like to own - scaled down Mark V in .250 Savage. I think it was only built for 1 or 2 years. It has 6 locking lugs instead of the 9 and is significantly lighter than the full size version. I believe it was 6 1/2 lbs or so with a wood stock.

I think that was the "Whitetail Special", certainly one of Weatherby's better ideas.

I once inadvertently double charged a .30/06 cartridge with 50 grs of SR-4759 under a 210 gr cast bullet and fired it in a M-17 Enfield. Rather than a gentle bang, this thing boomed like a .300 magnum, kicked hard, and the chrony read 2800+ rather than 1800 fps. I need a 2X4 to beat the bolt open, but other than the lettering from the cartridge head being printed in mirror image relief on the bolt face as in your Heym pic, the rifle served me well for many more years without any issue or loss of accuracy In my case though, the entire case head lettering was imprinted on the bolt face and the primer pocket had expanded out to the edge of the lettering of the case. While I don't recommend such abuse to any rifle you care about, or while your face is in close proximity to it, it goes to show how safe a quality rifle really is.
SR30_4.jpg
 
Back to the .458 Lott - luckily she was shooting at a Grant's Gazelle, not something meaner and en route to her location! (she mentioned it was a .458 Lott in a different video)

[youtube]ugFAjwM7S60[/youtube]

Gotta love the "wannabe Masai" look. I have a bit of an issue with the PH not being armed. In Tanzania, were there are gazelles there are lions, (no you don't see them) and the PH choosing to leave his rifle in the truck speaks volumes to me. Looks like the gal can handle the Lott just fine, from a standing position anyway. The gazelle's response to the shot goes to prove that a big bore doesn't necessarily kill small game any quicker than a small bore, particularly with a lung shot; in either case it takes time for the brain to run out of oxygen. Now who thinks a .458 Lott ain't enough gun for gazelles?
 
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