.45LC vs. .44 Mag

Mr. Friendly

Mr. Friendly

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I've heard that the 45 Long Cold isn't loaded up to what standard firearms can handle today and that done properly would easily match or defeat the 44 Mag. is this true? this is in regard to use in a lever action rifle.

thanks!
 
It's been awhile since I was shooting, But, I don't see the possibility of a 45 colt exceeding a 44 Mag. safely. In my Speer manual they state that there are reports that some have reloaded to higher levels than the Speer manual, and they have tested this and pressures are well above normal 44 Mag loads. Don't even think about it in anything less than a Ruger or Conternder. The 45 Colt is a great round. My best load was a 250 gr. Hornady with 14.5 gr. 2400 At 25 yards One big ragged hole with a S+W Mod. 25 PS. What's the Point ??? :nest: Jack
 
got to go said:
It's been awhile since I was shooting, But, I don't see the possibility of a 45 colt exceeding a 44 Mag. safely. In my Speer manual they state that there are reports that some have reloaded to higher levels than the Speer manual, and they have tested this and pressures are well above normal 44 Mag loads. Don't even think about it in anything less than a Ruger or Conternder. The 45 Colt is a great round. My best load was a 250 gr. Hornady with 14.5 gr. 2400 At 25 yards One big ragged hole with a S+W Mod. 25 PS. What's the Point ??? :nest: Jack
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The 45 colt can be safely loaded to equal the 44mag in extremly strong guns such as those from freedom arms or custom-built 5 shot rugers for instance.
 
In a lever gun the .45 Colt can be made to exceed the .44 Mag., in most pistols, I wouldn't push it that hard as cylinder walls are thinner in the Blackhawk for instance. In some 5 shot custom SAs or Freedom Arms guns it is also possible. You must also be careful with what levergun you are using, my remarks cover the Marlins only as I have lots of experience with them. Guns modeled after the '73 or '66 Winchester including a whole bunch of Ubertis and others should be no where near those heavy loads!!!
 
Both can be made to shoot heavy punishing(on both ends) loads.
Ruger Blackhawk can handle the heavy loads in .45 Colt and so can all modern lever actions.
Both have their fans.
 
If you want a 45 Colt, that will outperform the 44 Mag, it's called the 454 Casull. Frontier has a Puma lever in 454 Casull. Shooting Times Magazine had a few good articles on the 454 this month. Brass is the main reason I'd be uncomfortable trying to push the colt up to mag pressures. Get something that can handle the pressure without being out of it's published specs, and you'll just feel warmer and fuzzier inside.
 
I spend a few minutes looking at the .45 LC and the .44 RM and the Rifle Manual says NO the .45 LC can't match a .44 RM. The Heavest and slowest .44RM is still faster then the Lightest Fastest .45 LC. Also the Energy the bullet transfers on impact is also much different. This is for a rifle as you stated you were wondering about. Like stated get a .454 if you want a round that will out perform the .44 but the .44 ammo is the best deal for BANG for buck but I'd spend 5-10 minutes at a gun store checking out ammo prices over trying to find the ammo and the different weights your looking for on line.
 
The new model Vaqueros are built on the .357 Magnum frame rather than the larger .44 frame and were designed to capture the market of the cowboy action shooter rather than the field shooter wanting a powerful belt gun. As a result the webs between the chambers of the smaller cylinders are thinner. The advice that any .45 Colt can be loaded to .44 magnum levels should be viewed skeptically, and I believe this would be a pretty quick way to get in trouble with a medium frame .45. If you want a powerful .45 single action, clearly the safest route is to get a .454 or at the very least a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, which was the first sixgun used successfully to hotrod the .45 Colt.
 
No question, you can increase the performance level, in a levergun. But pushing it to 44 Mag levels is walking the line, unless the rifle you are working with has been chambered for rounds with higher pressure, such as the 454 Casull. What I'm thinking of here, was the attempt by Winchester to chamber their '94 in the 454. They never marketed that rifle. Never gave a reason why either.
But the '92 Winchester, and many of it's clones will eat the 454 with no issues.
You are exceeding spec for the cartridge, and in so doing, you are risking your safety. Understand that thoroughly and research the project widely, before you make the attempt.

Oh, and I highly recommend you check out the link posted by Can-down two posts up
 
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Here is some info from Paco on the subject of 45 lc in a lever gun. Paco was not afraid to push things so keep this in mind, some of his loads make me cringe.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Can the old dog equal the 44 mag? The 45 LC has the greater case capacity if all things are equal in regards to brass and gun strength it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. I was once tempted to run increasingly hot loads in my marlin, I ended up getting a 45-70, now I just appreciate my 45 LC loaded at the levels it was intended for.
 
Pacos a knowagable guy, but he's lucky if he has all his fingers. Kaboom.

454 Casul is the way to go for those that want heavy .45 horsepower in a hangun or rifle carbine.

If 45colt max loads arent enough for someone just what do you want to do with it? That is more of the question. 45brass isen't as strong as .44 as it wasen't designed to be. Some Elmer guy had a 45colt, long before .44 mags were born and pushed the 45colt cartridge to the limit. He then decided to come up with the 44mag. So let us learn from his teachings.

If your a real handgun nut who likes abuse over shooting for a day, get a 45/70 BFR and try that out!!:cool:

Cheers

Seabass
 
I went down this road a few years back and found some very interesting info. Back in the day AND in Africa Roy Seifried (SP?) and others were guiding and wanted a heavy hitting revolver. What evolved were supersized 45LC run at elevated pressures pushing some serious hard cast slugs hammering cape buffalo.

That eventually lead to the 454 Casull as a way to ensure someone didn't blow up an older weaker LC. There are several supersized revolvers that can handle the 'magnum' 45LC/Casull

In my Win 94 Trapper of modern manf, I have had no problem pushing 325gr hard cast FN at 1550fps. Pressures are very moderate and the hitting power is very impressive. Essentially, I have duplicated 454 Casull long barrel HG performance in a 16" lever using moderate pressures. I used Starline brass and it lived happily through several reloads.

Assuming the brass was up to the task, you could put a 45LC into a 454 Casull HG and get similar performance. Afterall, there is only a slight difference in OAL with most of that taken up by the bullet. You can always just get some Casull brass and trim it back to LC length.

The larger bore means a heavier max bullet weight at similar velocities and pressures.

I quite enjoyed that Win...

Jerry
 
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