5.45mm and Ballistics Discussion (and Russian M4's).
- Thread starter KevinB
- Start date
Fair enough, just curious for my own purposes.
Did not most russian millitary ammo start using the hollowpoints for a while?
I know the 5.45x39 has this as well to increase lethality, and it was also used on the 7.62x39.
Did not most russian millitary ammo start using the hollowpoints for a while?
I know the 5.45x39 has this as well to increase lethality, and it was also used on the 7.62x39.
I heard somewhere that the M74 was less than spectacular because the Russkies specified too thick a jacket, which prevented the bullet from deforming and fragmenting as effectively as the 5.56. How much that matters to someone getting shot with one or the other, maybe someone more informed can give an opinion...
5.56mm especiall7 M193 and M855 ammo is velocity dependant for fragmentation.
Even Mk262 Mod1 will not frag at low impact velocities.
Good CoM hits from 5.56mm that frags can have near instantaneous effect
-- that said no small arm is a guarantee -- some people have taken 40mm and .50MBG and still tried to continue to fight.
The best idea is to get good hits, and keep shoooting till the threat is neutralized.
Even Mk262 Mod1 will not frag at low impact velocities.
Good CoM hits from 5.56mm that frags can have near instantaneous effect
-- that said no small arm is a guarantee -- some people have taken 40mm and .50MBG and still tried to continue to fight.
The best idea is to get good hits, and keep shoooting till the threat is neutralized.
If you read the old soldier of fortune when the afghans where fighting the commies you would find an article about some SOF guys traveling to afghanistan to try out the mysterious 5.45. In the article they talk about how its most likely a poison bullet against the geneva convetions and that the russians put arsenic into their lead. Thats all in reality from the air pocket making the bullet do insane things in the human body, things you wont really see in a big block of jello. Like the bullet hitting your arm and coming out the opposite leg.
Also the russians tried some spoon type tipped bullet to get the bullet to do some serious damage but I think they finally just decided air tip was fine.
Now it would be nice for someone to make some air tipped 5.56 ammo just to see what would happend.
Also the russians tried some spoon type tipped bullet to get the bullet to do some serious damage but I think they finally just decided air tip was fine.
Now it would be nice for someone to make some air tipped 5.56 ammo just to see what would happend.
I wonder if the effect from the air-tipped FMJ is really much different than a modern boat-tailed hollowpoint (since the hole in the BTHP is really small, I mean). I'm sure it's different but I wonder how much. It would be interesting to shoot something with both and see.
Not that it would settle anything. But shooting things and seeing what happens is fun.
Not that it would settle anything. But shooting things and seeing what happens is fun.
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Ballistic Jell is a medium that is the best thing we have currently.
The US Mil uses it, the FB uses it, the RCMP use it, basically every credible entity I know of uses it.
Live testing is also done in controlled circumstances -- HP White Labs has done a lot of MRI's and XRays from live tests - if you have the friends in low places to get access via an entity.
The reason Ballistic Gelatin is used is because when compared to live tissue impact, it has been found to be the best simulant. And due to PETA and all the other wonderfully nice people in the world - Live Testing cannot be done to the extent that would be preferable.
Personally -- I'd empty prisions and use them as test subjects -- but people dont seem to appreciate my cost cutting methodology.
Sure bullets dont always act the same -- but the Gell showns an AVERAGE effect.
If 5.45 was the devastating killer then it follows that many others would be using it -- and Russian Tier1 assests would not be using 5.56mm M4A1's..
Dosing -- I'm not using it -- its just and extra support weapon in the vehicle.
C-Mags have a terrible reliability record in any platform -- to the point I would not use one for training (the whole train as you fight thing too).
The US Mil uses it, the FB uses it, the RCMP use it, basically every credible entity I know of uses it.
Live testing is also done in controlled circumstances -- HP White Labs has done a lot of MRI's and XRays from live tests - if you have the friends in low places to get access via an entity.
The reason Ballistic Gelatin is used is because when compared to live tissue impact, it has been found to be the best simulant. And due to PETA and all the other wonderfully nice people in the world - Live Testing cannot be done to the extent that would be preferable.
Personally -- I'd empty prisions and use them as test subjects -- but people dont seem to appreciate my cost cutting methodology.
Sure bullets dont always act the same -- but the Gell showns an AVERAGE effect.
If 5.45 was the devastating killer then it follows that many others would be using it -- and Russian Tier1 assests would not be using 5.56mm M4A1's..
Dosing -- I'm not using it -- its just and extra support weapon in the vehicle.
C-Mags have a terrible reliability record in any platform -- to the point I would not use one for training (the whole train as you fight thing too).
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