$500 Swiss Arms rifles WTB ad?

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driller212 said:
I personally noticed no "flood" of swiss arms rifles to the EE. I check it often and honestly there seems to have been no flux in the amount of swiss arms rifles for sale that is unusual.

When I saw Epoxy7's add I did not approve, and I still don't. I comes across to me as someone trying to take advantage of a horrible situation not unlike the PMAGs. But if someone is willing to sell such a nice piece for that much it is their own problem.
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Seriously?

There were back to back adds lined up the week reclassification was brought up. Everyone claiming to be selling to fund other projects.


If someone can ask an outrageous price for an item why can't someone ask a lowball price? Fair is fair. I saw Epoxy7's add and I thought about posting the same thing but at 750$. I'd be the one taking a potential risk and so would the seller making the choice to walk away with some cash in there pocket or potentially looking at losing it all.
 
driller212 said:
I personally noticed no "flood" of swiss arms rifles to the EE. I check it often and honestly there seems to have been no flux in the amount of swiss arms rifles for sale that is unusual.

When I saw Epoxy7's add I did not approve, and I still don't. I comes across to me as someone trying to take advantage of a horrible situation not unlike the PMAGs. But if someone is willing to sell such a nice piece for that much it is their own problem.
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I've been scouring the EE daily for over a year looking for the right reason to buy a Classic Green, and I can tell you the number of adds is up about 25-50% after news hit of the possible change...and yes, it's almost comical reading the sellers claims of "need to free up some funds for another project". It's all good though, open market means the seller makes his pitch, sets the asking price as he sees fit, and the buyer does everything he can to save a buck.

The change to the EE rule in this case is equivalent to putting your fingers in your ears and singing lalalalala when faced with the reality of the situation. The SA's might be reclassified, we all know it, so it's a factor in these last minute deals before the end of the month.

Maybe it didn't need to be mentioned in the WTB add, but let's say on the off chance there is a SA owner who wanted to sell his rifle, but knows nothing about the possible changes coming... maybe he would appreciate the news flash and say to hell with it I'll take a sure $500 over a possible goose egg anyday! Ok, that's a reach I know. :)
 
driller212 said:
I personally noticed no "flood" of swiss arms rifles to the EE. I check it often and honestly there seems to have been no flux in the amount of swiss arms rifles for sale that is unusual.

When I saw Epoxy7's add I did not approve, and I still don't. I comes across to me as someone trying to take advantage of a horrible situation not unlike the PMAGs. But if someone is willing to sell such a nice piece for that much it is their own problem.
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Well let me count the wrong in your post. First off yes the amount of Swiss Arms for sale did spike. I check the EE daily, sometimes more. It was noticed.

Here's my argument against what you have posted:
1) I made a price that I knew I would never get called on. I have bought things on the EE I have a pretty good idea of the price zones where someone will tell you to go pound sand or possibly consider it. $500 was meant to ensure I didn't get taken up on the offer. I was actually worried someone might take me up on it and if bound to honour it as per the EE then I would essentially be losing $500. Hence why it was $500 not $1000 or my personal more realistic assessment of $1500 as I couldn't afford to lose $1000 and I really had no intention of having to buy one.
2) My PMs prove my intent. Including all responses I made to PMs most of which were actually positive. I made it clear in every one that this was a public service announcement rather than any capitalist venture. I have already stated, Admin/mods are welcome to audit those pms and let you guys know whether what I'm saying is correct or not. If I couldn't back up what I was saying this would be a stupid move.
3) If I actually took people up on $500 Swiss Arms rifle I could be subject to discipline under the RCMP Act if a complaint was made. I'm pretty sure they would consider it a conflict of interest and possibly a breach of public trust etc.
4) I frankly could make a number of phone calls and most likely get up to date information on the status of these rifles. I do have some connections. Again see #3.
5) Read my posts. I seem to spend a lot of time trying to help or at least provide some insight from what I know of products etc. Does someone trying to screw others and look out for #1 do this? Look at my post count. Is this consistent with your beliefs?

I find this very interesting. At first I figured everyone got the point of the ad. When I received a number of PMs complimenting me on my capitalist venture and had to respond that this wasn't the purpose it became clear that the message wasn't as obvious as I thought.

Bottom line I don't have any issues with people taking risk and trying to make some money. None at all. That being said I have and always do believe the best business deals are those where both sides are happy. Plus while it's not in my nature to take advantage like that, I could also face discipline at work.

Now let's also look at the prospect of it going prohibited. Which frankly I believe at this time is a very real possibility. In fact the decision was already made. The venders were given what amounts to an appeal period. So now you're presenting information to counter what a firearms expert has determined. It's an uphill battle. I'm hopeful but the percentages are against it. Which brings us to one more point. If they go prohibited I can not bury mine, lose it etc. Not only would I risk the minimum sentence but they would add on breach of public trust for the sentencing along with the loss of my employment. No doubt various charges under the RCMP act as well. Plus they would be very gung ho to make an example of me to show the public how no one is above the law. I wouldn't rule out a "special prosecutor". I'd be done. I'm not risking a 90-100K a year job and going to prison as an ex cop. It's not going to happen. So I'd simply lose the rifle and the money. Considering I put it against us in the 90 percents and already stand to lose a 3K rifle, I'm not planing on losing anymore.

Bottom line think what you want. I know what the intentions were I can prove it and I'm a bit surprised at the assumption. It's interesting to see who your friends are when people think you're down.
 
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I find points 3 and 4 of your post above pretty interesting... you can get 'inside information' if you choose to.

And this is what basically blows a hole in a lot of the capitalist rants in this thread- it's not a level playing field if some people are privvy to info that the rest of us aren't.

In the business world, there are insider trading rules to, well, discourage unethical behavior. Not to say it doesn't happen.

So, great job raising visibility on the issue, and I still think the 'mods' should at least support actions that pass on info and raise awareness.
 
I have a similar ad posted, which is factual as well. If I buy one and it is reclassed, then I will have to weld it up. It does not violate any EE rules as the SA is currently under review. In actual fact, it should be required that all sellers of SA rifles disclose that they are under review. That is absolutely not a rumour, and to an unknowing buyer could be a nasty surprise.
 
I agree that all SA rifles adds on EE must have a warning about reclassification. It's not a rumor and it's not right to sell theses without warning to potential buyers.
 
C77 said:
As with all TV's posts, there is a grain of salt that should be taken with it, and here it is:

Seems to me that you got a warning and NOT an infraction. There was also the little issue of promoting illegal activity or selling illegal items. You and I also discussed the warning and your ad.

My feeling then is the same as now: the EE is a buy and sell and not an opinion or editorial page. There is a politics, off topics and general firearms forums for your social commentaries.

If the post or thread takes away from everyone else's experience at CGN, then it likely should be moderated. The ad you posted shares one thing in common with epoxy's. It was not meant to generate a sale, it was to make a rhetorical point. Fake ads, scams etc, all take away from the member's experience and will continue to be dealt with.
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That pretty well sums it up, thank you.

...and no, I didn't "get" the humor in the ad. Personally, I would rather burn the rifle than sell it for $500 after spending close to $4000 on it.
 
C77 said:
Thread cleaned of tinfoil and other irrelevant posts.

Please keep this on topic.
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To the moderators:

Should it be necessary that ads mention a possible status change to the item being sold? I would argue that this would not 'take away' from anyone's CGN experience. In fact, I would argue that it enhances it.
 
nntw said:
To the moderators:

Should it be necessary that ads mention a possible status change to the item being sold? I would argue that this would not 'take away' from anyone's CGN experience. In fact, I would argue that it enhances it.
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I don't think so. Caveat Emptor...If your going to spend around $3,000 on a rifle, spend some time researching it in the other forums a bit. A quick search would reveal the reclassification thread in all its glory.

Just as some buyer may not have seen that thread, so too might the seller not have seen it as well, and you would hold them responsible should it be prohib?
 
Repro77 said:
I don't think so. Caveat Emptor...If your going to spend around $3,000 on a rifle, spend some time researching it in the other forums a bit. A quick search would reveal the reclassification thread in all its glory.

Just as some buyer may not have seen that thread, so too might the seller not have seen it as well, and you would hold them responsible should it be prohib?
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Not knowing is one thing.... knowing and NOT disclosing is a different matter. That's where personal ethics enter into it.

I wouldn't drop $3k without doing my due diligence. But I wouldn't feel comfortable thinking that I was taking advantage of someone else's ignorance either.
 
It's like selling a car that you know the brakes are faulty on and dangerous to drive yet willing to not disclose it just to make a buck at someone else's expense.

For the most part only people trying to sell there Swiss Arms will disagree with having to disclose this in adds.
 
Ads for SA in EE have definitely gone up, and they are asking much less then before. You are seeing many Green and Black Specials for 2500-2800, while a month ago that was a rare find and most were 3500+. I just don't understand why someone isn't allowed to buy something for below value when there is a good chance it could be worthless next month, but the sellers can sell them with no warning for "below" normal prices. If someone doesn't know what's going on with them, and sees a Black Special for 2500-2800$ chances are they are going to jump all over it, because a few months ago that was a steal. I bet if these get prohibited, lots of people are going to be wishing they sold them for 1000$ if they are not claiming them to be sold to the RCMP, because 1000$ IS better then 0$. Even though many people claim they will say they sold there SA or "fell out of the boat" I bet very few will actually follow through with that and will hand them in when RCMP knock.
Also, I am seeing quite a few people offering to trade rifles for a SA, which are well below the "value" of a SA. Like M305, or KSG and others. Are these going to be monitored?
 
mattf87 said:
. I just don't understand why someone isn't allowed to buy something for below value when there is a good chance it could be worthless next month, but the sellers can sell them with no warning for "below" normal prices.
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No one has said that anyone can or can't buy anything. The issue was making fake ads to use the Equipment Exchange to make a point. It's for selling and buying not to use as speaker's corner.

There is another issue is people making unethical ads. epoxy has said he was never going to buy anything anyway.

"Descriptions of all items must be factual. All pictures posted must be the original pictures of the items owned by the sellers. Sales pitches based on assumption, rumours , unsubstantiated claims or anything that are deemed to be unethical by CGN will be removed. CGN reserves the right to infract or/and remove accounts who violate this clause."
 
As Epoxy has indicated (and has been previously pointed out in other threads), since the RCMP has already issued a ruling (in writing) - how is this an unsubstantiated rumour? It's hard to imagine how EE ads could influence any decision one way or the other seeing as how they've already made their determination.

And in terms of caveat emptor, we sure seem to be doing a good job locking and/or otherwise deleting threads which might otherwise allow people to educate themselves.
 
mattf87 said:
Ads for SA in EE have definitely gone up, and they are asking much less then before. You are seeing many Green and Black Specials for 2500-2800, while a month ago that was a rare find and most were 3500+.
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Restricted versions in those price ranges, but all the NR are still $3k +
 
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